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Discussion > EVs - Charging / Solar Panels

Exaggerating a bit there - the cash hemorrhage was weird ... they seemed to have quite a big subscriber base - I wonder really why they blew it.

Sep 10, 2021 at 11:18 PM | Registered Commentertomo

I suspect it cost a fortune to keep the things on the road.
Can't help but speculate that they are still in that field could be because no-one knows what to do with them! From the little I have read, EV batteries are not easy to recycle - and these are a one-off type, as you say.
Hope they have good security: if someone torched one, the whole lot would go and be a nightmare to extinguish!

Sep 11, 2021 at 10:36 AM | Unregistered CommenterMikeHig

While looking around at the project I saw a reports quite a number of fires and one sympathetic combustion event. I guess that given the propensity of some groups in the cities to torch cars during assorted religious festivals and the MO of leaving the units around on the street - one should expect that.

I also saw one report in French that the units are supposedly being refurbed and put out at €3800 a pop - not many takers at that price point... I'm not clear if the units qualify as Voiturure sans Permit

Sep 11, 2021 at 1:25 PM | Registered Commentertomo

There's some talk that a new fleet of Hydrogen powered "mini" city cars is going to replace the units... I wonder if they're going to fire test those?

Sep 11, 2021 at 1:42 PM | Registered Commentertomo

Apparently.... according to The Times....

E Chargers will turn off to save the grid

That'd be a new generation of chargers then as near all the non Tesla charger have no remote control functionality.

Play stupid games - win stupid prizes?

Sep 12, 2021 at 12:20 PM | Registered Commentertomo

That's where the smart meters will come into play.....

Sep 13, 2021 at 9:38 AM | Unregistered CommenterMikeHig

- there's unintended consequences lining up :-)

I've torn down a couple of Smart Meters (for educational purposes) - at present they are constructed to turn off the entire load, you won't have *any* electricity if your EV is a designated load for Demand Management .... and as far as I'm aware Tesla is the only EV outfit that has the capability to remote control charging (and perhaps pivotally) measure the amount of charge an EV takes to be recorded for taxation purposes...

I would go and look at what "The Fully Charged Show" is saying (if anything) about this - but that would be a serious overdose of Panglosserie and likely put me in a grumpy frame of mind and result in futile huffing and puffing.

Sep 13, 2021 at 11:51 AM | Registered Commentertomo

I see some XR splinter group is blocking M25 junctions

I wonder if there's any Canning Town DLR style vigilantism from mobile phones ?

Sep 13, 2021 at 12:21 PM | Registered Commentertomo

Amazing if true.

Sep 16, 2021 at 2:05 AM | Registered Commentertomo

I can't help thinking that, if the risk is so high, they would take the cars off the road.

The Bolt driver may be able to park 50 ft from other cars but that doesn't stop anyone arriving later from parking alongside. Also what about traffic jams?

Sep 16, 2021 at 8:35 AM | Unregistered CommenterMikeHig

According to Autocar, there's a new player from China about to enter the market in Norway:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/nio/es8/first-drives/nio-es8-2021-review

Intriguingly this car is designed for battery-swapping as well as normal charging. A network of service stations is planned that will be able to swap the battery in about 3 minutes.
It will be interesting to see how this develops!

Sep 17, 2021 at 8:58 AM | Unregistered CommenterMikeHig

Battery swapping is an absolute requirement imho where "light switch" utility is paramount - the "electric aviationists" have I think figured that one out....

I wonder why Tesla didn't go down that route with the trucks....

Sep 17, 2021 at 3:51 PM | Registered Commentertomo

ICYMI

Grant Shapps announces all EV chargers will now be fitted with timers to stop them working at peak times and a random 30 minute turn on delay to stop them all turning on at once. It's unclear if the timers will be extended to public chargers and retrofits will happen.....


Given this "logic" - tea breaks are going to get interesting when the timers are added to kettles? - in the meantime will the council be switching off those nice new chargers at peak times?

Energy wardens seem a possibility?

A diesel generator looks to be the new "must have" EV accessory?

Sep 30, 2021 at 8:36 AM | Registered Commentertomo

This looks to be formalising the announcement of a few weeks ago into law, coming into effect in May of next year.
Unless something changes, it won't apply to public chargers and domestic/office users will be able to over-ride the "time-out".
I expect a lot will use the over-ride because it would impede access to adequate charging time and/or conflict with getting the car warmed up in winter.

Rather undermines all of the assurances about the Grid being able to cope with the EV load!

Sep 30, 2021 at 9:52 AM | Unregistered CommenterMikeHig

oi larfed (I did) at the idea that £100k+ Tesla and Porsche owners in a hurry would be presented with :

Please Press the "Charge! Button" and we'll start charging your vehicle sometime in the 29 minutes after the peak period has elapsed.

This is going to be a rubbing point ..... if there are power cuts, EV owners have just joined the list of people to blame ;-/

Sep 30, 2021 at 7:13 PM | Registered Commentertomo
Oct 3, 2021 at 9:56 AM | Unregistered Commenter.

I'm sure the batteries will be fine....


https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1448198473497595904

Oct 13, 2021 at 9:14 AM | Registered Commentertomo

JCB Hydrogen conversion

the engine "outputs the same" as the standard 448

It' really not like this hasn't been looked at before

I might try plugging some numbers in here but I'm scratching around for the heating value for H₂.

I'll likely do the sums but tbh - it article claim looks wildly out and detonation issues seem to have dogged prior work - so add some boost and things get gnarlier.

JCB engine fag-packetry

With a swept volume of 4.8L

Dieselmax 448 V is 135HP / 95kW ca. 2200 rpm

The energy in Hydrogen is in the range 120 to 140 MJ / kg

At 2200 rpm the gas flow through the motor (no turbo) is 4.8 (displacement) x 2200 rpm / 2 = 4400L/m

So say at 1.2kg/m³ the air consumption per minute will be 5.28kg which at the given 99:1 air fuel ratio will require 53 grams of H₂ (6.94MJ -ish) per minute which roughly equates to a thermal energy of 416MJ per hour or 115kW/h. Subtract thermal efficiency, self-sustain absorbed power and add some boost.

My rough sums seem to suggest that about 20kg (ca. Mirai x 4) of hydrogen a day might be required - the logistics of that would be a challenge. I doubt Clarkson will be buying one (although he might want to one-up May's Mirai)

I see BEIS have a Hydrogen Production Cost Report for 2021

- that doesn't credit the authors afaics.

I confess I did a guffaw when I saw

The report does not cover the costs of hydrogen compression, storage,
transmission, distribution or end use.


The thermodynamics and chemistry of JCB's lean burn strategy seem to be following aviation engine practice as outlined in this YouTube piece on recent GENx jet engines (link jumps to time)

Oct 22, 2021 at 10:48 AM | Registered Commentertomo

Thank you for that link, tomo. I have been trying to find some information on the actual price of hydrogen, other than the usual wishy-washy hand-waving of, “But, it has so much to offer…. And it’s free!

It turns out that it is really 36 pages that say nothing. Remarkable. And I still have no idea how much hydrogen power is going to cost. I wonder how much this “research” cost?

Also, why is so much being spent of “carbon capture usage and storage”, when the idea of using hydrogen is that there is supposed to be no carbon emissions? (They even talk about it as if it is something that is real!)

There was a time when I actually thought that hydrogen could be our future power source, it being the most abundant element in the universe. But, then, I used to think that the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause were real, too….

Oct 24, 2021 at 1:53 PM | Registered CommenterRadical Rodent

:-)


Was it really 36 pages ?.... I didn't count... felt drained after several readings though.

Oct 24, 2021 at 6:31 PM | Registered Commentertomo

RR: for motoring uses, I have a figure of £10 per kg for hydrogen from a few years ago so a "tankful" cost about £50.
Much of that cost is electricity for producing the gas and then compressing it to 700 bar. So the price will be higher now. Anyway, I doubt that is realistic as there is so little of it available: the price is probably pitched to be close to petrol.

On batteries, EVs, etc this article caught my eye. It gets into the details of recycling the things (in Australia). They seem to be learning as they go and it looks quite challenging:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-25/electric-car-solar-battery-storage-waste-recycling/100564234

Oct 25, 2021 at 11:08 AM | Unregistered CommenterMikeHig

MikeHig

quite a lot of failed batteries there in the article, without an explanation of what the failures are i.e. chemistry / construction or management ?

I wonder how the per kilo figures work out for the separated bits from shredded cells. One might expect the journos to follow the entire process since they mention "the circular economy"!

Since it seems unlikely that Aussies get different batteries to the UK I wonder at a Hyundai pack replacement campaign in the UK?

My pal who had a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (mentioned up thread) has now disposed of it - 4 years, average depreciation just on £100/week - ouch.

Oct 25, 2021 at 1:48 PM | Registered Commentertomo

Some Tesla related shenanigans away from the MSM and fanboy zone.

Musk and Biden (OK, his crew) are going to have an even more public bust-up aren't they?

Nov 1, 2021 at 11:56 PM | Registered Commentertomo

That anti-tesla attitude fits right in with the efforts to kill the domestic oil and gas industry.

Things are getting more like Ayn Rand's visions by the day!

Nov 2, 2021 at 10:41 AM | Unregistered CommenterMikeHig