TinyCO2, slightly unfair there on the other European states. NATO made a point of involving as many countries as poss in Afghanistan. The Estonians were especially keen.

Ther Germans are contitutionally prohibited from non-NATO operations, the Belgians and the Dutch have no empires any more to protect and the latter have shied away from UN duties since Srebenica. Austria still plays at peace keeping although it did blot its copy book a while backi by refusing to send its guys to the Golan Heights and of the course the Irish still do UN work.

gc, as you say, a lot of these things predate the brexit vote. The UK would have joined in these things anyway. It's part of our nature/plan to be part of clubs. We almost certainly will join in after the additional 2 years are up. But, how many times have the EU used any of its military forces? France yes, UK yes, but the others?

Mar 24, 2018 at 12:08 PM | TinyCO2

The EU Army was what the UK Armed Services were being readied for, which would have seen NATO's role reduced, along with the UK's contribution to NATO.

The Royal Navy has been without an Aircraft Carrier in service for 3(?) years. How many Aircraft Carriers will an EU Navy have, without the UK?

If an EU Army is intended to replace the US as the World's Police, Law and Enforcement Force, the EU is poorly equipped to fight away from home advantage.

What will the UK be able to charge the EU for chartering a fully equipped and staffed Aircraft Carrier per week?

Mar 24, 2018 at 11:58 AM | Supertroll
Mar 24, 2018 at 8:40 AM | Mark Hodgson

Councillors should represent local people and local interests. That is what Local Govrnment should be about. Some are purely motivated by National Politics, with aspirations of furthering their own interests. Some concentrate on local conditions to further their own interests.

Gaining access and control of substantial grant funding that is not perceived as Council Taxpayer's Money, may lead some to conclude that the same rules of diligence and accountability are not required when spending it.

EU Money will be missed by some Council Officers, Members and their dependants.

In terms of the armed forces being part of the EU army for two years after Brexit, I can't see that it's a problem. Almost any incident that would involve an EU army would also be a NATO operation unless it was against another NATO country. Highly unlikely and there's no reason we couldn't disagree, should such an event occur. It's more likely that the UK would be asking the EU army to get involved anyway. Ideally we'd all try to stay out of trouble. Just think of it as joint manouvers and for a short time anyway.

There are other things more worrying.

Unfortunately successive governments have given up control to the EU but also to the Civil Service that has its own agendas. I doubt that any leader could have undone all that in 2 years. when at the same time deal with infighting, and an opposition turning into the communists, ably backed by our brightest (and most stupid) youth. May isn't some Machiavellian genius trying to keep us in the EU, she's just a bit cr@p. The remoaners have a point in that there was no plan for what it would be like after Brexit, although they are also largely responsible for no work having been done on it before hand. I'm not sure we'd know what to offer up and what to keep in the negotiations. No country has ever tried to escape from a similar situation without warfare and those are not without considerable pain. We have the most craven, whiney, self absorbed youth ever, who won't tolerate a moments discomfort and will sell the country out for cheaper mobile roaming. We have a media (traditional and social media) who rip every decision to pieces. How can a government be bold with them at their back?

Is it best to just rip off the plaster or ease it off? There are arguments for both, but frankly this country has been on easy street too long to manage a sudden plunge into the real world. If the exit is too scarey, business will flee and we'd run the risk of a new referendum overturning the lot. I'm afraid we have to accept some compromises - but which ones?

Mark. A councillor's worst nightmare, in spades. Where I live we had a councillor who thought that all she had to do was turn up and vote. She resigned after two months complaining that she didn't think she had to deal with PEOPLE, or their demands.

tomo and golf charlie.

If you want to take a look at the allegedly dodgy goings-on at just one Council (which may be replicated nation-wide?), this website might be worth a look:

http://oldgrumpy.co.uk/