Hi Gortonborn, it is good that you have taken down the poll it is the right thing to do. Not sure about the numerous flips, having watched along with others, the poll fairly closely for the preceding 24 hours, it just moved inexorably in one direction. But I see no gain for anybody in going back over that period.

Just in case you are wondering I am a lot further north than "the South East and in Cambridgeshire", lets just say I know Gorton well. But that is one of the issues with this web thingy, it does not have geographic boundaries, well maybe China & North Korea.

I understand people promoting their business; that was my vocation. The problem here is that the promotion is seen to be at the expense of people who will never be able to take up your "free solar" initiative. The people that live in inner city apartments, the ones whose roof isn't big enough to support your business model, the ones whose roof faces in the wrong direction, those with obstructions etc. I am sure you know the issues. This cannot therefore be considered to be a fair and equitable government initiative.

The government is on record saying that the feed in tariff and other green initiatives will result in increased electricity unit costs. Increases will erode the savings your clients make. It also has another detrimental effect, the sure-fire result of increasing the cost of fuel and energy is inflation. The sure-fire result of increased inflation is increased interest rates, not normally good for society as a whole. (Also not a good scenario for certain business models.)

You now have my reasons for wanting a true and representative conclusion to your poll. Not just the views of your friends.

I would like to be able to wish you well with your enterprise, and maybe I should, it is the government that has set the scene, not you. But I will find it difficult until you and the government find a way for your business model to produce a benefit for all UK citizens, not just the ones with big houses that face south. Please do not cite the benefits that all UK citizens will get from the reduced CO2, we both know...

Regards

PS It is the Bishop - Andrew Montford that you should thank for the opportunity to post

Green Sand - I appreciate what your concerns are and believe me, they are ours as well, we have taken down the Poll and it will remain that way, you mention a flip of the results - this was not by us but by another (or the same) source that flipped the results twice before in the previous 24 hours - because we invited guests to vote (i.e. unregistered) we have no precise way of identifying the individual - what we do know is there are a couple of registered users who are on the same IP address (using the same machine to post against Chatmaster) - this is no surprise after the weekends activities - what started innocently as an invitation for our 'Friends' to join a forum for Green discussion has turned into a painful experience for us and our Friends - finally, the really interesting point is this, the majority of our friends are Yorkshire based, the main protagonists are based in the South East and in Cambridgeshire - Make of this what you will...Google will fill in the gaps - Thank you for the opportunity to post...

Hi Gortonborn, you are quite right in saying that posters have been boasting about the ease of manipulation. I am a very old bear with no understanding of such machinations, so cannot comment either way. I understand that the poll was manipulated by both sides of the "divide" and I truly find this disappointing.

Commissioning an open poll on such an important matter carries responsibilities. Especially if "The results will be passed to the decision makers at the highest level and we can only hope they will take on board the positive nature of the overwhelming response we have enjoyed so far!"

The people who initiated the poll, commenced by emailing "friends" and asking them to "have your say". (you know the wording of your email). This can only be seen in one light, an attempt to stack the poll in the direction you wanted. There can be no other interpretation. So I have a problem with your final comment "I will let you decide (which is all we wanted our Poll to do)".

Also, an instant flip of the result and leaving it at that position does not put this issue in a good light. If the poll has been manipulated then it should be withdrawn and the numbers taken down. But it is your poll.

However, I am disappointed that the poll was manipulated, It was never my wish to compromise or manipulate the poll I wanted to see the poll finish with a true representation. As one of your commentators has said, there is a lot of feelings on both sides of the "divide" and as business people I am sure you are aware of the need to understand the depth of those feelings.

Maybe you could go again, with registration, with security and with adequate unbiased publicity? Possibly with a comment here, I am sure the Bishop would not mind. If he does I am sure I will soon find out.

Regards

I sent this to the PR dept at the Hospital for Sick Children at Great Ormond Street (GOS) today.

.....I was absolutely appalled to read that GOS has signed up to the 10:10 campaign. Apart from the questionable nature of the idea that CO2 is causing Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming, which you surely must know is not accepted by a growing number of people, are you not aware of the recent disastrous publicity campaign undertaken by the doyens of 10: 10, in producing a film which involved graphically blowing up small children who did not agree to reduce their CO2 "footprint"? See below, for example.
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/10/enemys-true-face.html

Were you not aware of this film? If so, how can you ignore it? Is this really the sort of campaign you, of all institutions, would wish to associate yourself with? I am am frankly ashamed of the Hospital for making this decision.

I just telephoned the House of Commons Science and Technology Committee. The Committee Clerk told me that Sir Muir Russell and UEA Vice Chancellor Edward Acton would be giving oral evidence on October 27th. The session is scheduled to begin at 09:15.

A press release about this is apparently scheduled to go on the Committee's web pages later this week.

Congratulations for Roger Harrabin....

http://www.bromley.gov.uk/environment/Bromleys+Environment+Awards+2010+-+Roger+Harrabin.htm

Jo Abbess calls William Connolley a 'diamond geezer' in his comments

http://scienceblogs.com/stoat/2010/10/the_wikipedia_disaster_area.php

Jo's thoughts

http://www.joabbess.com/2010/10/17/the-stoat-also-rises/

Jo:
Some people have all the energy.

William Connolley’s struggle to keep Wikipedia clean on Climate Change has tired me out – and I only dip into the ongoing saga from time to time :-

http://scienceblogs.com/stoat/2010/10/the_wikipedia_disaster_area.php

He must eat oats to have that kind of perpetual momentum :-

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/william-m-connolley/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Connolley

The spat at Wikipedia over editing of Climate Change-related material has subsided into a kind of uneasy truce.

Seems like the Climate Change sceptic-deniers just won’t let it lie – they’re recycling their accusations of Connolley all over again. WARNING : What follows may contain gross inaccuracies :-

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100059077/professor-hal-lewis-is-not-an-irrelevant-senile-old-fool/
http://www.thegwpf.org/best-of-blogs/1705-lawrence-solomon-global-warming-propagandist-slapped-down.html
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/10/14/willia-connolley-now-climate-topic-banned-at-wikipedia/
http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=6469&linkbox=true&position=1

Show your support for El Stoat, by commenting here :-

http://scienceblogs.com/stoat/2010/10/the_wikipedia_disaster_area.php

Just in reply to Greensands Information on a Poll we are running over at www.Greenerenergyexpert.co.uk, the Poll has now been closed due to unfair manipulation of the Votes, ie. Multi voters using the fact you did not have to register to vote if you understand a little about browsers - this is the fact of the matter, if (and I am sure you already know) you have read the other mentions of this Poll on the Telegraph blogs etc, you will see other posts boasting of the ease at which this can be acheived - I will let you decide (which is all we wanted our Poll to do) Thanks

The New Tipping Point

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11563513

Is this the end of the age of insanity?

Green Quangos go and Nuclear power wins outright. Perhaps now we can start planning for a future for our kids.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsored/business/businesstruth/energy_and_environment/8068460/Chris-Huhne-to-announce-eight-sites-for-new-generation-nuclear-plants.html