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Second thoughts. Seismicity is not exactly an area that I can claim any great expertise. I have discussed subsurface waste disposal with a colleague tasked with evaluating its potential in a Canadian province, worked with industry geophysicists (you get to learn their language) and have discussed earthquakes with an expert within UEA. However, upon some questions here I've been giving the best of my understanding, but this could be I've been winging it. Such was the case with evaluating the energy required to shake a pile of rock compared with causing ground vibrations from a wind turbine. What I had forgotten was that most of the energy in a seismic wave is conserved as the wave is transmitted from one place to another. Thus the entire volume of rock is not being shaken at the same time. This realization came to me when I considered artificial seismic waves and the energy needed to send these waves through a rock sequence either by using explosives or a "ground- thumper". Large, but not that large.
Nevertheless, although I don't actually know how much energy might be transmitted into the ground from a wind turbine, I doubt it is anyway comparable with that needed to induce a usable seismic wave. If it did, the concrete bases wouldn't last long before being shaken to bits (I guess - winging it again).

Oct 27, 2018 at 4:54 PM | Unregistered CommenterSupertroll

SG. I think you may be confusing magnitude with intensity. But I have already explained why wind-induced tremors shouldn't be called earthquakes. And if you think the energy that might be imparted into the ground by the wind is in anyway comparable with the energy needed to shake a pile of rock several thousand metres thick over many square kilometres, then I despair.

Oct 27, 2018 at 4:13 PM | Unregistered CommenterSupertroll

GolfCharlie
"aren't these "earthquakes" exactly what was Intended by the hydraulic fracturing process?"

You have it in one. I'm sure the Industry would have hoped that the induced seismicity would have been even lower, so that the risk of inducing more damaging effects would be virtually non-existent. But that is not the case in Lancashire, no matter how much you would wish to support the fracking industry. The seismic risks are not zero. The same applies to the subsurface waste disposal industry which has been associated with damaging earthquakes. I imagine the regulations relating to avoiding seismic damage associated with subsurface waste disposal have been modified to apply to fracking in suspect areas like Lancashire.

Oct 27, 2018 at 4:01 PM | Unregistered CommenterSupertroll

Are you sure the reading would be less than 0.5 ?

Oct 27, 2018 at 3:52 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

SG
"If we put the same monitors at the base of giant wind turbines, what would they read ?
Would it be called "earthquakes" ?
No, it wouldn't. It might be called micro-tremors or vibrations, but they wouldn't have the same energy nor, more importantly, would they have the same cause - a readjustment of rock in the subsurface accompanied by over-pressures.

Oct 27, 2018 at 3:46 PM | Unregistered CommenterSupertroll

A smaller green-hedgefund scam
Times : Schools ‘pestered’ into buying pollution shields
\\ Schools are being pressured into buying expensive “green screens” to shield children from air pollution despite concerns that they are not the best solution and may make little overall difference to health //

Even Doctor Grigg reckons the test results for these playground hedge screens don't stand scrutiny and firms are just trying to sell a quick fix to gullible head teachers
and gullible councils are offering grants
"30 schools applied to the Greater London Authority for grants of up to £35,000 to buy them after they were recommended by air quality audits."

Will the same schools discourage bonfires ?

Oct 27, 2018 at 3:45 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Supertroll, aren't these "earthquakes" exactly what was Intended by the hydraulic fracturing process? If they are being monitored, isn't this just the sort of evidence that the fracking industry has been denied the opportunity of obtaining, in order to prove the very low risk that results?

If this is exactly the sort of damage the activists have warned about, then the conclusion must be that it causes no more damage than a solitary tree falling down if no one is there to watch it, hear it or sense it.

Either way, Frack On! Hopefully some Shale Gas will be produced. Meanwhile, wind turbines still mince birds, but are unreliable for other purposes, and we don't know about the effects of their bad vibrations on worms or whales.

Oct 27, 2018 at 3:39 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

If we put the same monitors at the base of giant wind turbines, what would they read ?
Would it be called "earthquakes" ?

How many fracking tremor deaths have there been in the US ?
... well shut up then

Oct 27, 2018 at 3:35 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Tomo pray tell us when you stop using the word "earthquake" for low intensity events that are generated in exactly the same way as damaging earthquakes? Don't you think deliberately using a different word might obscure any possible risk of a possible future more damaging quake? I don't recall hearing a news item on Lancashire seismicity (even from the BBC) that hasn't been accompanied by a statement about their relative indetectability.
Your comment regarding geophones being able to detect footfalls is also misleading because microearthquakes can be detected over areas of square kilometres, whereas, from my experience helping students with their geophysics undergraduate projects, footfalls can only be detected at distances of less than 10 metres.

Oct 27, 2018 at 2:54 PM | Unregistered CommenterSupertroll

st

fracking is splitting rock.... it seems quite unlikely that can be done silently :-)

Where the safety issue lies must be in triggering the release of accumulated stress along a line of weakness or a prexisting fault. The limited microseismic I have seen seems quite good at imaging the frack zone. There is always a chance that a fault might slip without some precursor sounds but sensibly the gas folk don't want that to mess up their manifold and will avoid where possible.

Caution informed by geophysics is prudent operating practice in drilling - the media reporting of all this driven by eco nut press release recycling is just crap.

Oct 27, 2018 at 2:39 PM | Registered Commentertomo

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