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Discussion > Drs against Diesel : A subsidy mafia Front

May 6, 8:36am R4 now DieselsRPaedos long newsvert

Opening framing trick : playing old clip of kids/parents outside a school
"How old are you ? 6
What do you think of the high air contamination today ?
(do you get how ridiculous that is !!)

Sir David King went straight into "pollution =diesels"

"new vehicles don't make the standards"

He wants retrofitting of cleaning tech.
"recalling of all vehicles"
Against scrappage (yeh cos that doesn't help his subsidy mates)

Ended 8:45 saying they couldn't have another view cos Andrea Leadson is not available.
(Doh it's close to day after local elections)

People Tweeted
Hahahahaha... the school told the kids not to breathe in too much??? Really??? Sounds unlikely!

Without irony, parent says "I was driving the kids into school and I's seriously worried about air quality.".

May 10, 2017 at 10:19 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

May 5, 2017
expert reaction to government’s draft UK Air Quality Plan for tackling nitrogen dioxide

DEFRA and the Department of Transport have published their new strategy to improve air quality in the UK.

Prof Jonathan Grigg, Professor of Paediatric Respiratory and Environmental Medicine, Blizard Institute, Queen Mary University of London (QMUL), said:

“Since this proposed plan has been developed to ‘avoid undue impact on the motorist’, it is not surprising that the ambitious option of removing the current toxic diesel fleet from all UK roads by 2025 is not a key component.

“Given that previous initiatives that have not directly targeted diesel emissions have failed dismally in the past, I am not confident that these proposed local interventions, however innovative, will achieve a step reduction in exposure of vulnerable populations, such as young children.”

Prof. Ian Colbeck, Professor of Environmental Science, University of Essex, said:

“The Government has basically placed the ball in the court of Local Authorities to tackle air pollution without any guarantee of additional funds. Congestion charging, a possible source of funding, should only be used a last resort. One interesting suggestion is the revision of information to car buyers to include NOx emissions. However there is currently no idea how best to do this as well as the on-going debate about on-road versus manufacturers’ figures.”

* ‘Improving air quality in the UK: tackling nitrogen dioxide in our towns and cities; Draft UK Air Quality Plan for tackling nitrogen dioxide – May 2017’ was published by Defra and the Department for Transport on Friday 5 May 2017:

Technical Report:

Declared interests

Prof. Jonathan Grigg: Jonathan is also Founding member of Doctors against Diesel.

Prof. Ian Colbeck: “Member: Institute of Physics, Royal Meteorological Society, The Aerosol Society, International Society of Indoor Air Quality and Climate. Funding: NERC, EU. Voluntary appointments: Essex Air Quality Consortium.”


May 10, 2017 at 1:18 PM | Unregistered Commenternot banned yet

Professor Grigg - as the Founding Member of Doctors against Diesel, please can you locate and quote the specific text in the DEFRA documents which identify and quantify the health impacts of NO2 at typical ambient concentrations? I have not been able to find anything of substance .

Thank you.

Box 1.1: An overview of the health effects of different pollutants

Nitrogen oxides (NOx) NOx emissions are made up of both nitrogen dioxide (‘primary’ NO2) and nitric oxide (NO) and are primarily formed from domestic (boilers, wood burners), industrial (manufacturing and construction) and road transport (engines) combustion processes. NO reacts with oxidants such as ozone to form NO2 in the atmosphere (‘secondary NO2’). Short-term exposure to concentrations of NO2 higher than 200μg/m3 can cause inflammation of the airways. NO2 can also increase susceptibility to respiratory infections and to allergens.

It has been difficult to identify and quantify the direct health effects of NO2 at ambient concentrations because it is emitted from the same sources as other pollutants such as particulate matter (PM). The evidence associating NO2 with health effects has strengthened substantially in recent years. Studies have found that both day-to-day variations and long-term exposure to NO2 are associated with increased mortality and morbidity.

Evidence from studies that have corrected for the effects of PM is suggestive of a causal relationship, particularly for respiratory outcomes. The Committee on the Medical Effects of Air Pollutants (COMEAP) continues to consider the estimate of the health impact of NO2.
from page 15:

Draft UK Air Quality Plan for
tackling nitrogen dioxide
Technical Report
May 2017

May 10, 2017 at 1:30 PM | Unregistered Commenternot banned yet

"the children organised the protest about pollution I was there as the local candidate"
Said Kate Hoy about the event
Where she photoshopped the Liberal competitor out of her photo but left his legs.

Greens lie we know that well.

May 10, 2017 at 4:18 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

The earnest of mattering particularly.

May 11, 2017 at 4:30 AM | Unregistered Commenterkim

Monday: Today's pg4 of Times green-newsverts
- Rich areas like Mayfair most polluted
Links to pg29 Leader.

- Ice-Cream vans pumping out pollution.. due to fridges.
- Policeman had affair with activist in 1990s .. Now he's police commissioner so Lab MP calling for him to resign

May 15, 2017 at 4:11 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

pg 29 the story making another appearance in the Times Leader page

Dissembling PR : Today's claim is "High pollution is reducing house prices in UK "
Attributed to "Mark Hayward" MD of "National Association of Estate Agents"
Features on Times DieselsRPaedos normal newsvert page , page 4 "London’s best addresses to come with air quality alert"
..and then again in the editorial 'customers care about the pollution rating of a property as much as they care about the energy rating of a property' ..emm I don't believe him
'reduce value by 12%'
Hmm so where does this come from ?
Where's it been reported before the Telegraph 3 days ago

Evening Standard 23 May 2016 08:53 BST
"London homebuyers looking for property in areas with low pollution
Low pollution is becoming a key criteria for Londoners choosing a new home"
Quotes Hayward and is V similar to today's article.

The DM quotes him in 2015 18 January 2015
Littered streets slash 12% off home's value: Sale price can be hit by thousands in untidy areas

Seems like him being a rentaquote guy
and PR guys google him and then cherry pick a story which they then reprint in the Times
wouldn't surprise me if Hayward is connected to the campaign somewhere.

May 15, 2017 at 8:10 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Many people tweet their own story , maybe twice
@naea_uk retweeted that 2016 story 20 times ie almost daily

Seem to tweet positively for Labour
and negatively against Conservatives

May 15, 2017 at 8:15 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Oh there's is something wrong with that Times editorial.
It makes a common error that I see on the work of a number of professional bodies, which shows they don't understand the 40K theoretical death stat.
The TIMES editorial begins
"More than 14,500 people have died air pollution-related deaths so far this year. "
err no they haven't. Practically no one has died from air pollution. It appears on NO death certificates.
BUT each of the 60 million living are having their lifespans theoretically shortened by air pollution by a few days per year. And if you add up all those lost days it adds up to the EQUIVALENT of 40K lifetimes THEORETICALLY and with a large margin of error.

May 15, 2017 at 9:46 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Hey that Telegraph article from 3 days ago..that is not a normal article
Not just cutnpaste. It's a campaign vert
..They've added in "a pollution in your area tool" etc.

"A toxic air alert was issued for the first time in London over “very high”
..Maybe but pollution is way down on 30 years ago so cut the dramatic language

"Nearly 9,500 people died early in a single year as a result of long-term exposure to air pollution in London, a Kings College London report claimed."
No they didn't... it's theoretical equivalence
"If a house is in a highly polluted area, such as near a train line, it might go for a 15 per cent less than a similar property in a less polluted zone.”"

There's no open comments
Quoted Henry Pryor,whose been tweeting against pollution a few times since April 2016
I bet these mouths trace back to a London Cyclists group or Sadiq supporters etc.

May 15, 2017 at 9:58 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

the Times pollen maps give us a surprise.
grass, nettles, ash trees.
They show that London is low for grass, but densest for nettles and ash trees.

Each incident of high grass pollen is followed 4-5 days later by hospital asthma cases.

May 20, 2017 at 11:54 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

In London a black kid stabs another black kid every few hours. "14 people have been stabbed to death in London in the past 4 weeks"
Labour "anti stop and search" Mayor Sadiq Khan says "look over there, at people driving diesels".

May 20, 2017 at 2:06 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

the DailyMail includes two extra pollen graphs showing that London is high in birch and common Hazel, compared to the rest of the country.

May 20, 2017 at 3:41 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

May 10, 2017 at 10:19 AM | stewgreen

Just how many deaths did London's iconic design classic the "Routemaster" double decker, diesel engined, 115 horsepower omnibus actually cause in almost 50 years?

Alternatively, try Flanders and Swann:

It is incredible that any Bus Drivers or Conductors ever reached retirement age, if Sir David King is correct.

May 20, 2017 at 10:54 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

May 10, 2017 at 10:19 AM | stewgreen

"May 6, 8:36am R4 now DieselsRPaedos long newsvert

Opening framing trick : playing old clip of kids/parents outside a school
"How old are you ? 6"

Was this question aimed at the anticipated mental age of the target audience?

May 20, 2017 at 10:58 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

stewgreen, google skiing and asthma. Lots of stuff like this

"Asthma is particularly prevalent in cross-country skiers. The longer an athlete is pursuing the sport, the higher the risk of developing asthma problems,” the expert says to NRK.

Cold fresh mountain air is not as good for you as London's streets, apparently.

May 20, 2017 at 11:10 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

I have a backlog of Times DieselsRPaedos newsverts but here are today's

Front page
"Air pollution can deprive you of a good night's sleep "
- and that's out of Martha Billings of University of Washington.

May 22, 2017 at 3:57 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Wednesday - "Diesel Fumes trigger coughing nerves"
Quotes : Maria Belvisi of Imperial who did a study on PAHs a byproduct of burning diesel published in J of Allergy and Clinical Immunology

BTW the Times report again contains the 40K misunderstanding fallacy "tens of thousands of people are estimated to die early"
(no they are not; ALL people die early and the combined life days lost adds up to tens of thousands of lifetimes)

May 24, 2017 at 4:03 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

The Greenpeace guy gets slaughtered in the Anrew Neil interview last year

May 24, 2017 at 5:36 PM | Unregistered Commenterstewgreen

Allergies. Yesterday on Radio 2, it was explained that communities around the world with high levels of intestinal worms suffer far fewer allergies.

The UK suffers from a surplus of parasitic environmental reasearchers, feeding off others.

May 24, 2017 at 6:49 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Monday : "Diesel causes Heart deformities"
Tweet of full article
..Actually Im pretty sure they already did this one ..It maybe on my backlog sheet

May 30, 2017 at 4:39 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

The Times Hyperpole today June 1 2017,
"Toxic air pollution clouds prospects in 50 marginal seats
Ben Webster, Environment Editor
"Fifty marginal seats have illegal levels of air pollution, according to analysis that suggests parties’ plans for tackling toxic diesel emissions could influence the election outcome."

(Photo Theresa May campaigns with Joy Morrissey, the Conservative candidate for Ealing Central & Acton — a constituency that has high pollution levels)

This kind of disingenuity leads me to label the campaign DieselsRpaedos
The article is entirely spin and false narrative construction
Then they have the gore to have a box right under the article ..actually on a different matter labelled FACT CHECKER , as if they are great bastions of the truth.

Truth actually involves , keeping things in perspective and not lying by omission.

The fact is
- the vast majority of roads in those constituencies meet EU laws evry day
- Some rush hour roads breach the laws some hours of the year
- The laws themselves are a biy arbitary and the measurements are impresise
- Graphs show that pollution has fallen massively over 40 years as engines evolve to be cleaner ..and there is no reason to not believe that the roads would be dirtier in 20 years than the law reqires.

Jun 1, 2017 at 4:43 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

BBC I've got you banged to rights ..acting as an eco-political-lobbying group using licence payer money

If you were an ACTIVIST eco-organisation trying to change UK policies
you might use YOUR OWN MONEY to make a custom graphic and a GIF89 animtion to promote your cause

But if you were a PUBLICLY FUNDED ..IMPARTIAL ..Radio show ie without pictures you wouldn't waste money
.... Well not unless you are Womans Hour

There is no evidence to suggest that within the next decade or so , the EXISTING evolving ever cleanliness of vehicles won't bring the almost all roads within EU limits
and anyway we won't be in the EU.
The vast majority of UK roads already meet limits , it' just certain roads and certain time, certain weather conditions that don't.
The BBC graphic

The BBC Gif animation ...for sound only radio show

Jun 1, 2017 at 5:58 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Wednesday : Sir David King
"Children in cars *could* be exposed to more pollution that those outside, Prof Sir David King warns"
* "could"= spin not science
"If more drivers knew the damage they could be doing 2 their children,
I think they'd think twice about getting into the car"

Its practically zero ... The special situation is only when stuck in heavy city traffic jams.

Jun 14, 2017 at 3:41 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

I hope they didn’t use any diesel fire engines at Glenfell Tower !
particulates from them could harm peoples health.
Seriously I wonder in the coming month how much of the particulates entering West London’s lungs will come from the fire compared to diesel vehicles ?

Jun 14, 2017 at 10:53 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen