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Discussion > Drs against Diesel : A subsidy mafia Front

Saturday pg9 of the Times
Whole page news-vert bylined Peter Yeung
"Toxic Air Pollution hits Record Levels*"
Quotes Dr Grigg

* The text says "highest average this year" not of all time of course.

Apr 15, 2017 at 2:50 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Activist reporter
He tweeted virtually whole story to himself
An expert pointed out that the targets are average level over whole year ; so it's a error to cherry pick 3 months. You are supposed to compare a 12 month period.

Apr 15, 2017 at 3:05 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

And they lay in yet another thousand word editorial calling for diesel scrappage scheme.

Apr 15, 2017 at 3:29 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Monday's Times
Frontpage "Mental cost of diesel fumes like a bereavement" and then page4 also devoted to the PR campaign
Ffs diesel is a small proportion of pollution

Apr 19, 2017 at 4:13 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

"Toxin tax on diesel drivers shelved until after election"

Apr 22, 2017 at 2:18 PM | Unregistered Commenternot banned yet

This doctor appears to have actually taken the trouble to check the background to the promoted propaganda of panic:

Are Britain's pollution levels really a public health emergency?
Dr Michael Fitzpatrick
17 APRIL 2017 • 7:00AM

Apr 22, 2017 at 2:30 PM | Unregistered Commenternot banned yet

@NBY cheers

Saturday : pg7 Diesel pollution crackdown shelved on eve of launch
People were expecting scrappage scheme cos of Client Earth court action but Friday gov used election as excuse to apply for delay until June 30th

Apr 22, 2017 at 3:57 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

There's an interesting sub-thread to that court case, Stewgreen From the report on their website:

Mr Justice Garnham [...] said that ministers knew that over optimistic pollution modelling was being used.

I wonder if knowledge of bad modelling could ever suffice to sway a judge in other circumstances, such as, say, governments wasting squillions of Pounds trying to change the weather in the year 2100, which was part of the original justification for promoting increased diesel use.

Apr 22, 2017 at 9:40 PM | Unregistered Commentermichael hart

Michael - one can equally argue that the modelling used was pessimistic in its view of future compliance. At the time of the case some of the early indications of poor Euro6 on the road performance were referenced. However, now there is evidence coming through that actually current Euro6 under the new Real Driving Emissions protocol is rather good.

Apr 23, 2017 at 11:52 AM | Unregistered Commenternot banned yet

Other Times page has plan in Oxford to measure vehicles pollution as it passes using lasers..
..Hmm seems same old thing to me - overoptimistic plan so come back when you've got it working.

Apr 23, 2017 at 1:14 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Can imagine lawyers anticipating a huge uptick in business as masses of irate dog owners sue whomever for blinding their dogs with lasers.

Apr 23, 2017 at 5:54 PM | Unregistered CommenterSupertroll

Can imagine lawyers anticipating a huge uptick in business as masses of irate dog owners sue whomever for blinding their dogs with lasers.

Apr 23, 2017 at 5:54 PM | Supertroll

Some dog owners may sue for loss of stud fees and associated undercarriage damage, if the lasers are mounted at exhaust pipe level on lamp posts. I expect some of the dogs won't be too happy about it.

Apr 23, 2017 at 9:11 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

I found a 2012 BBC page saying other stuff like
"Drying laundry in the home poses a health risk to those prone to asthma"

Meanwhile in Canada science is progressing identifying a gut microbiota link
"Yeast found in babies’ guts increases risk of asthma"

Apr 24, 2017 at 8:01 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

That's an interesting link from the BBC. As far as I'm aware it's always been the case that people dry their washing indoors for most of the year, certainly in the 20th century. Perhaps modern, less drafty, homes make the problem worse. Also I think there is an increase in the number of homes with dehumdifiers (i knew someone who shut drying washing in his kitchen with a dehumidifier overnight), utility rooms, tumble-driers in garages and condensing tumble-driers so I find I'm a bit sceptical about it being a modern problem.

Apr 25, 2017 at 1:19 PM | Unregistered CommenterSandyS

@SandyS I was skeptical as well cos surely there's less inside drying due to people using tumble driers etc.
But then you get stuff like putting it in a airless room.

Apr 25, 2017 at 1:42 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

SandyS & stewgreen, many houses with "damp" problems do not have a problem with moisture coming into the property. It is moisture produced internally that can not get out, due to improved draught proofing, and more showers, kettles etc, but especially tumble driers used with venting.

Lots of bugs, bacteria, fungi etc etc thrive in warm moist environments creating just the right conditions to trigger breathing difficulties.

The financial pressure to conserve heat and energy, has reduced air-changes per hour within buildings. Are there any medical statistics on it? So much easier to blame it on diesel.

Apr 25, 2017 at 2:26 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Labour MPs asked an"urgent question" about the Air Quality plan court delay.

Parliament prog on R4 Monday night
Bonkers MPs talking about delay in Clean air plan
They kept repeating the 40K deaths fig as if it were ACTUAL REAL people + used hyperbolic language

"What will I say to the families of the 7 constituants who will dies before the election?"
Well name the last 7 who died
You can't cos it's a theoretical death not real deaths you stupid woman.

Ended after 8:30mins

Apr 25, 2017 at 2:36 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Apr 25, 2017 at 2:26 PM | golf charlie

oops, typo

..... kettles etc, but especially tumble driers used WITHOUT ADEQUATE venting.

Apr 25, 2017 at 2:40 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Sunday Politics Dec18th called out pollution hyperbola
Features Frew and Spiegelhalter

Apr 25, 2017 at 3:01 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

As I've mentioned before the more than 1.2 billion lightning flashes around the world every year fix Nitrogen creating Nox compounds, I was looking into how the process works and if Nox from combustion actually fertilizes the soil and if it affects the pH of rain to any great extent. What I did find was that the amount of N/O compounds created by lightening isn't well defined, a figure is quoted but without much hard evidence.

This article from nearly 10 years ago comes up with an interesting view of the subject Although it does have all the usual stuff about Climate Change and positive feedback.

According to a new paper by Ott and Pickering in the Journal of Geophysical Research, each flash of lightning on average in the several mid-latitude and subtropical thunderstorms studied turned 7 kilograms (15.4 pounds) of nitrogen into chemically reactive NOx. "In other words, you could drive a new car across the United States more than 50 times and still produce less than half as much NOx as an average lightning flash," Ott estimated. The results were published July.

Apr 25, 2017 at 4:16 PM | Unregistered CommenterSandyS

golf charlie
I was in Auchindrain township last week visiting the Land of My Father's fathers. What was clear was that damp was an ongoing issue, drying and keeping grain dry a particular problem in 18th and 19th century Argyll. By the looks of things it still is. So although I agree about damp and airtight modern houses I'm not sure it is a uniquely 20th/21st century problem.

It is like modern medicine, doctor gives you a drug to "cure" a health issue. The cure has side effects so he/she/they gives you another drug to "cure" the side effects, which has side effects and so on and so on. Washing at 30' saves energy but doesn't kill bugs so have a washing detergent that kills bugs which affects the environment more adversely that creating the energy for a hot wash. Tumble driers fill a home with moisture so have a dehumidifier. Madness

Apr 25, 2017 at 4:33 PM | Unregistered CommenterSandyS

We’re All Victims Of The Great Green Swindle

Date: 26/04/17
Alice Thomson, The Times

A generation who thought they were doing the right thing by buying diesel and clean energy have been taken for a ride.

“It’s the diesel, all that nitrogen dioxide and those toxic pollutants,” he explained. “He’ll inhale the particles in the car even with the windows shut, when he’s playing football by a busy road and even from the trains at the station.”

Alice Thomson - in the event that you happen to read BH, please can I ask you why you accept this doctor's assertions at face value? Did he present any evidence to support his comments? And, if so, please can you share them with us?

Thank you.

Apr 26, 2017 at 11:46 AM | Unregistered Commenternot banned yet

Thu: "Deadly diesel particle's from toxic air penetrate the heart"
Dingaling hyperbolic headline

Apr 29, 2017 at 2:45 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

So he Times did a big splurge on DieselsRPaedos PR on prior to the court verdict.
and basically have done lot less since
So it looks just like a paid for news-vert campaign

Asthma sufferers to sue over pollution | News
The Times · 2 days ago

Ministers to pass the buck for diesel charges to councils
5 days ago - Air pollution campaigners believe that charging diesels to enter cities is one of the only practical way of reducing nitrogen dioxide levelsStefan Rousseau/PA. Ministers will try to avoid imposing charges on diesel drivers in an air quality strategy due to be published within days.

Diesel charging zones should be last resort, says anti-pollution plan ...
2 days ago

Diesel car sales slump as drivers fear emission fees
Sales of new diesel cars fell last month by the largest amount since the financial crisis after warnings that they could attract charges to improve...
Friday May 5 2017,

Pollution plan leaves charges on diesel drivers to councils
Ministers have been accused of passing the buck after they told dozens of local authorities to reduce air pollution but left councils to decide...
Saturday May 6 2017,

May 7, 2017 at 1:54 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

A view from the wild side :
A Fork In The Road For Fresh Air - Or Another Lung Full of Particulates?
Published on April 27,

A lot of silly sneering
and assertions which are provably wrong
...then the name at the bottom
Roger Atkins
Founder - Electric Vehicles Outlook Ltd
** Vested interest **

May 7, 2017 at 1:57 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen