Friday
Oct082010
by 
Bishop Hill
Bishop Hill Mann in WaPo
Oct 8, 2010 Climate: Mann Michael Mann has an op-ed in the Washington Post.
My fellow scientists and I must be ready to stand up to blatant abuse from politicians who seek to mislead and distract the public. They are hurting American science. And their failure to accept the reality of climate change will hurt our children and grandchildren, too.
H/T Messenger
Reader Comments (96)
Hey Mike, why not release those emails anyway, to show what a good honest scientist you are. I'm sure it will only help the case of warning the world about whatever we're calling it this week.
Ah Diddums, someone taking your soother, or trying to!
Tell me baby face, if you are scared witless about someone finding the truth about your hockey stick, why don't you take Prof Jones advice and send it to the same place as the emails he wanted you to destroy.
Pathetic weak crybaby.
It's boilerplate stuff - just some standard paragraphs copied-and-pasted.
I love the start of this sentence:
The problem with climate science is that nobody has ever made any breakthroughs. Ever. They are still on the starting line.
I don't see any breakthroughs coming soon because there are some fundamental roadblocks. First up is the idea that there even is such a thing as a global climate. We saw just today that tiny New Zealand has dozens of different climates in one country. It has glaciers, rainforests, deserts, sub-tropical areas.
The idea of a global climate is like the idea of an average telephone number. It's arithmetically possible - but mad.
Well this appears to be justifiable only if Mann is trying to get votes for the Democrats. The Democrats believe Mann and the Republicans know otherwise.
Everyone involved in the science knows that Mannian science has been trashed, shredded, swept away and incinerated (several times).
We all seem to have our different angle on what is wrong with these people. I will stick with my favourite: CO2 is 150 ppm above the level required to support vegetation and they want to take CO2 out of the atmosphere to save the planet hahahaha.
This is just an insult to democrats - possibly unintended - but pretty stupid stuff.
I liked the comment on WUWT (Josh cartoon) from Kojiro Vance, Oct 8, 7. 44pm
"Arrogance – “How can I assure young researchers in climate science that if they make a breakthrough in our understanding about how human activity is altering our climate that they, too, will not be dragged through a show trial at a congressional hearing?”
Hey Mikey – how can we assure young researchers in climate science if they make a breakthrough in our understanding about nature being responsible for climate change that you and your colleagues won’t shut them out of leading research journals or deny them work?"
What the hell is "American science"? The place you hide when you've destroyed Regular Science?
Andrew
Messenger: Spot on.
Pride comes before a fall. He has a long way to drop and there is only hot air holding him up.
My fellow scientists and I must be ready to stand up to blatant abuse from politicians who seek to mislead and distract the public.
Correction. Substitute scientists for sceptics, and add scientists to politicians.
What is all this about stolen e-mails. That is news to me. Can anyone enlighten Me, because i would love to read them and compare them with the climategate e-mails.
A bit OT and a cross-post. But there really seems to be a battle going on over there.
My fellow scientists...Vroooooom....and I.... hello... HELLO!
He doth protest too loudly.
I think there may be more damning details in the sequestered e-mails than were exposed in Climategate. Mann is afraid; he doesn't want something exposed. More tricks, I suspect.
At the Lindzen-North debate held at Rice University earlier this year, Climategate came up. Lindzen was asked: "How would you feel if your private e-mails were made public?" Lindzen replied that he would not have any problems about it; no big deal. Hmmmm. But it's a big deal with Mann. Why?
On reflection, in one sense I fully support Michael Mann, when he says 'My fellow scientists and I must be ready to stand up to blatant abuse from politicians who seek to mislead and distract the public.' But not his follow on, and not his intention.
The blatant abuse I am thinking of is the political advocacy balls and chains, the fetters that aspiring true research scientists are now shackled with in terms of targeted grant funding. The abuse is managed and co-ordinated by those august committees and councils and those who appoint them. Rectors and Departmental Heads should fight for a free funding allocation for their speciality, and a total firewall for their chosen projects between them and the councils. Before they wised up to their advocacy power, these councils used to pretty much apportion no strings blue sky funds to the various disciplines. But those days of innocence are long gone, and not to be recovered without a some kind of showdown.
Pesadia
Popular opinion has it that whoever "leaked" the climategate emails would not have shown everything he had all at once. The belief is that there is more to come but only time and the Masked Leaker will tell ^.^
Respect to this guy whoever he is because they have not laid a finger on him yet hehe.
Edward Wegman lawyers up. There gotta be a quickie book in this one too
I don't necessarily agree with Mr Mann, but at least he puts his real name to pronouncments of his views (and in very public places too), unlike many complainants here. And me.
My name is Colin Brooks :)
This earth shattering disclusure has no impact whatsoever on the truth, importance or integrity of my posts since I am but a mere mortal. Others on this blog have legitimate reasons for not inviting publicity and so who are you Big Yin? ^.^
Nice one Colin. I'm Bob Martin.
ello Bob hehe
That's Bob MARTIN, not Bob HEHE!! :-)
Pharos
That was a heartfelt and heavy post and you are right on the money :(
Humph!
I am going back to Dung
Everybody sing together...one, two, three...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAlMomLvu_4&feature=player_embedded
If Mikey believes everything he wrote, he's even more nuts than I thought possible. Does anyone think that slandering everyone who disagrees with you is a good career move for a "scientist"? Especially for political purposes a few weeks before an election where said scientist will undoubtedly find the votes go against his side?
It's a strange world he must live in. Very strange indeed.
Who will rid me of these troublesome 'private funders'?
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Mann is the most overtly political scientist one can encounter.
Well if you can't take the heat.............
Dung
How did you formulate “Dung” ;-)
Irritating.
At what point did Mann's tea leaf and chicken entrail readings become 'Science'? The man has been exposed as the charlatan that he is.
American 'Science' is still based on the same principles as everywhere else(?). Perhaps it is time to stop considering American 'Science' real science - more National Enquiror , Alien abduction, Hamster ate my Freddie type stuff.
I don't think Mann standing at the back of the room at the NAS chanting 'One of us', One of us' is going to gain much traction with the 'Mainstream' sciences. ;}
Pharos:
"The blatant abuse I am thinking of is the political advocacy balls and chains, the fetters that aspiring true research scientists are now shackled with in terms of targeted grant funding."
I used to hear complaints like your's in the '60s from the principal investigators on the grants for which I was a "research assistant." But then it was the orthodoxy du jour among the application review committees. But that was doubtless less pernicious than what you are referring to.
Doesn't that still exist as well and in most disciplines.
Martyn asks:
'Dung
How did you formulate “Dung” ;-)'
I have to wonder too. It can make replying to your comments feel a little uncomfortable. It's not how I normally address even those whose views enrage me ;-)
Dominic
Reworded it slightly to hide the decline in American science.
"My fellow politicians and I must be ready to stand up to blatant abuse from scientists who seek to mislead and distract the public. They are hurting American business. And their failure to accept the reality of rent seeking will hurt our children and grandchildren, too."
Still don't get why he thinks he should be above the law. If he's got nothing to hide, he should welcome the chance to clear his name.
Oh, and watch out - Eli Rabett has arrived. Marshall your thoughts. Eli doesn't mess about:
"Edward Wegman lawyers up. There gotta be a quickie book in this one too
Oct 8, 2010 at 9:37 PM | Eli Rabett"
Note the respectful characterisation of our host's book.
Love & peace Eli
His op ed seems more about his panic of what happens "should" the republicans retake the house and Issa puts him in the hot seat and "protecting" science, which he has sorely abused beyond all belief and credibility
And he should worry.
Sanctimannious.
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It is wonderful that the good Professor, Michael Mann, has taken this opportunity, provided by the Washington Post, to pontificate on the absurdity of politicians trying to dictate policy to scientists, Clearly it is for politically motivated scientists to make robust dictatorial decisions themselves, invent scientific methods and techniques to prove themselves right, get their buddies to tell them how right they are. and attack anyone, who, no matter how politely, orn scientifically, dares to question them.
Help, Help. I'm being opressed!
"How can I assure young researchers in climate science that if they make a breakthrough in our understanding about how human activity is altering our climate that they, too, will not be dragged through a show trial at a congressional hearing?"
One way would be to make sure there's a proper statistician on staff to check over the work before you make an embarassing publication. But then one 'young scientist' managed to build a career out of an inconvenient truth. Wooden thermometers just ain't accurate.
What is it with the AGW crowd and kids? Fresh on the heals of Splattergate assassinating non-compliant schoolchildren, Mann works up to his grand finale in which... children and grandchildren get 'hurt'.
After the 10:10 video, we really must have a Red Button Award for blatant 'KiddieProp'... the cynical exploitation of children to drive political propaganda.
Atomic Hairdryer Help help I am being oppressed
May be suggest to the student that if they want a legitimate long term career, climate science is not for them. How about astrology, it has stood the test of time despite being founded on nonscientific presumptions.
If global warming, can become climate change, can become climate disruption, why can't climate science become climate astrology
What a crock. Who doubts the "reality of climate change"? Change is what climate does apart from in the Hockey Stick version where it was magically constant until the last hundred years or so, despite ample evidence to the contrary.
There's also this word "scientist", which is interesting. Because of the success of the scientific method as a way of gaining reliable knowledge about the way the world works, the word "science" has been hijacked by various sets of people; social science, political science, management science, computer science, Christian Science. None of these things are scientific and all of them are attempting to pass themselves off as science to give themselves credibility.
Then of course, there's the scientific establishment which has become politicised and a vehicle to further politics. It can be said to represent "science".
I see Mann's endeavours as a mixture of claiming the trappings of science to legitimise his efforts and being an actor in the scientific establishment, with little if any of what could be described as science, in the traditional sense, involved.
As Shub said, Mann's highly and obviously political.
"Mann in WaPo"
Eventually it may be possible to claim that "in" should be "is"
The majority, and I include myself, may never be in a position to demonstrable refute his conclusions, but no "wrongdoing" in the emails? Insult the intelligence of your fellow man at your peril. Welcome to the real world Mr Mann, it differs greatly from the closeted "Real Climate".
GC
"If global warming, can become climate change, can become climate disruption, why can't climate science become climate astrology".
Climato-astrological science. A new discipline based on age old principles applied to the reality of climate.
It's wrong to give these people ideas.
The Easter Bunny thinks the Law has Risen, but it's just the Hokey Schtick.
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Martyn & BBD
This is sooo off topic that I am likely to be banned by his grace. However if I am not banned for being off topic I will be banned for my explanation which will not enhance my already shredded reputation :(
I play an online game called World of Warcraft (turn away now if you can see that reading further may be painful)
12 million players around the world inhabit a perpetual world and they are split into two groups; The Alliance and The Horde (still time to look away hehe).
I am a Guild Master in the Horde and my guild has 204 members. The Horde is made up of rotting undead, Orcs, Trolls and Tauren (cows). We are ugly and smelly and the Alliance are pretty and sweet. Both within my game and in the real world I figure Dung is the right name to use ^.^
Re GC
The students though are just the useful idiots. Courses related to 'climate change' have just been the latest greatest money spinner for Universities. LA Law begat a flurry of law students which exceed placements to do post-grad work and practice. Same with the dot com boom and bust. Green Uni courses are just the latest bubble and there's no doubt thousands of students doing courses that will give them little or no useful skills to serve the wider economy. The fees naturally benefit the universities, and they'll take them as long as the bubble lasts.
And as it's friday, and Mann, bonus stats joke-
Three statisticians go hunting. When they see a rabbit, the first one shoots, missing it on the left. The second one shoots and misses it on the right.
The third one shouts: "We've hit it!"
My fellow politicians and I must be ready to stand up to blatant abuse from scientists who seek to mislead and distract the public. We are hurting American science. And our failure to accept the reality of climate change will hurt our children and grandchildren, too.
FTFY.
Dung.. gnomes have more fun! :p
Atomic Hairdresser
I accuse you of being a member of the alliance and as such I ask his grace to remove you from this blog!