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Discussion > BBC prog pushing Electric Car Dream

"Hi, BBC, this is Greenblob hedge fund PR team here, can we order a 30 min advert about electric cars on BBC Radio 4"
BBC " yep scheduled Thu & Sun"
Their blurb :
There is a motoring revolution underway: the fast accelerating switch from petrol and diesel cars, to electric vehicles.
(FFS that is like an advert)

In Norway, almost 40% of new car purchases are now fully electric or hybrids.

FT say "2017 (EV 20.9% +hybrid 31.3%) 52.1%, (up from 40.2% 2016)"
Tesla Tax idea didn't get thru, so there will be a tax budget blackhole
"Key thing EV's today are only 5% of 2.7m in Norway cos Norway’s high prices mean they keep aged cars going for years
Wiki : tells us that plug-in hybrid's have now outpaced Pure EV's and that is the actual growth
"market share of all-electric cars suffered a decline over the previous year"
Other countries are starting to catch up, and are setting ambitious targets.
Britain wants to ban the sale of all petrol and diesel cars by 2040. (hybrids will be allowed)
Oxford wants to ban non-electric vehicles from parts of the city centre by 2020. (actually only a from a couple of blocks)

Motor manufacturers are investing vast sums in the development of new electric models.
Those who don't, risk being left behind.
And yet, as Peter Morgan reports, obstacles remain.
Many drivers feel "range anxiety", the fear that the car battery will run out before they can recharge it. And electric cars are not cheap to buy.

But costs are coming down fast, (that's hype)
batteries will soon last for hundreds of miles (that's hype)
, and charge-points are being installed in more and more places.
(hype lacking numbers)
So much so, that there's a new land grab going on for market share.
Start-ups are getting in on the act, and even big oil companies like Shell are branching out into this business.
(more hype)

Nevertheless, where will all the extra electricity come from?
Will there be standardisation of the charging infrastructure,
so drivers don't end up frustrated at a charge-point where their plug doesn't fit?

And while electric cars don't emit toxic fumes like nitrogen oxides,
how much difference do they actually make to harmful particulates in the air?
(They are not zero pollution cos of the dust tyre wear etc.
..not zero emissions cos construction CO2,
plus whatever comes from conventinal power stations cos wind/solar are pretty rubbish)
.. End of their long blurb

Jan 7, 2018 at 10:41 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Darn decoding articles becomes such a project cos both the BBC & FT write in a PR industry way, hyping the narrative.

The Norway EV Wiki article is quite good
And buried at the end is a crucial thing
Hybrids have powerd ahead of pure EVs
"After years of spectacular growth, the market share of all-electric cars suffered a decline over the previous year,
while the plug-in hybrid segment experienced significant growth"

"Plug-in hybrids are not eligible for all the same tax exemptions
and other government incentives enacted for electric cars."
but they are to get a weight exemption on road tax.

Also that there's been a trick whereby Norwegen agents buy electric cars in France/Germany with the French taxpayer picking up the subsidy cost

Cost comparison :
Small difference between Simple EV is $42.5K and 1.3l Golf petrol is $42K
BMWi3 $39,100.
2017 RAV4 Hybrid is the top seller in Norway

I see the touted 2025 "end of petrol" target is not set in stone
Direct from the Norway gov PDF
"We recommend the following steps for road traffic:
1. Until Zero Emission Vehicles (ZEVs) take over the market, the cars that are sold should be plug-in hybrids.
Most of them should be able to use biofuels.
2. After 2025, all new light vehicles, new city buses and new light commercial vans should be ZEVs."
(Even after 2030 a lot of new buses/lorries will still not be ZEV)

Jan 7, 2018 at 10:53 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

The windscreen wipers on my car are powered by an electric motor. Can I refer to my car as a bit hybrid, and qualify for tax concessions?

Most hybrids that I see outside urban areas have engines running. If this is an acceptable compromise for the Green Blob, as diesels used to be, how long before they cry out about battery emissions when they are scrapped?

Jan 8, 2018 at 1:24 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Have the BBC checked with the German Post Office about their practical experience?

Jan 8, 2018 at 5:12 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Since Norwegians are now going for hybrids , it would be interesting to know if petrol sales are going down or whether hybrids are being used in petrol mode

Trend - Petrol sales fall each year for last 5, approx -20%
but Diesel outsells petrol 3 fold, rose in sales approx +12%
(and agricultural duty free diesel is about same sales as petrol, growth pattern same as other diesel)
2015-2016 Petrol sales fell 2% .... diesel rose 5%
2016 Petrol 1,155 ....Diesel : 3,135

figs in million litres
Last month different trend
Nov 2017 vs Nov 2016
Petrol higher 89 vs 83 +7.2 .... Diesel fell 253 vs 259 -6

Bottomline : they brag about EV sales rises
They don't mention overall fuel consumption decline, cos overall Petrol/diesel consumption ROSE

Jan 8, 2018 at 8:25 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Public Relations people don’t even try to hide that they do News-creating
Tweet from PR firm and NGO
You may have noticed this segment dropped into your LOCAL ITV news at 6:10pm
not a product advert, but rather a 7 minute advert-for-narrative
A narrative that ‘electric cars are great’
starring comedian and EV crusader Robert Llewellyn

Jan 8, 2018 at 8:28 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen


“TV News” = a platform for pushing brainwashing narratives at the general public
18:10pm Electric-car-Narrative newsvert dropped straight into ITV regional programmes
#1 Yorkshire Studio : Smiley autocue reader :”And one thing that’s taking off is electric cars …there were only 3,000 sold in our last year, but green orgs say blah blah…”
#2 Flick to centralised news item that all ITV regions are viewing at the same time (about 4mins)
And straight away comedian and EV crusader Robert Llewellyn is on making wacky claims
‘Oh electric cars are way cheaper than cars 2-3p when petrol is 20p *
..only thing is range anxiety ..people think they are going to run out in the middle of nowhere, but that is impossible cos the computer gives you plenty of warning ….’
* Those figs are ridiculous ..If full life cycle was economic every fleet would be all electric, but they aren’t so that makes you think

#3 Then back to local studio Matt Price
– Mentioned lack of charging points range
– End with Norway hype ..failing to make context clear that actual EV sales fell as people are now preferring hybrids

Jan 8, 2018 at 8:30 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

"Public Relations people don’t even try to hide that they do News-creating"

Journalists don't even pretend they aren't professional propagandists...?

Jan 9, 2018 at 10:43 AM | Unregistered Commenternot banned yet

Yes the BBC has form when it comes to biased reporting on Electric Cars.

Mainly in the form of 'Top Gear', when the lads would 'review' an EV by taking delivery, running it round the block a few times off camera until the battery was less than half-empty, then taking it out for a test drive and 'hilariously' running out of power, (where there just happened to be a roadside film crew) and having to be pushed to someone's house to run an extension cord through someone's window.

Ho Ho. About time for some balance.

Jan 9, 2018 at 1:12 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhil Clarke

Jan 9, 2018 at 1:13 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhil Clarke

Top Gear is a scripted entertainment program run under the directorial whims of four people. It has never claimed to be anything else. The BBC allowed Top Gear to run due to it keeping a large part of the organisation afloat, and allowing the BBC to be the BBC and push its messages. Phil you should be thanking Top Gear not having a go at it.

Jan 11, 2018 at 5:26 AM | Unregistered CommenterJiminy Cricket

In a country like Norway, for full EVs, for much of the year you have to be close to a high capacity charging point. if the batteries are not kept warm, then they can lose 25%, which on current small ranges is a problem. If the car has a battery heating system, then that also draws power, a couple of kw at least. So leaving it outside all day without being connected causes a problem.

So I am not surprised plug-in hybrids are more popular.

Jan 11, 2018 at 5:35 AM | Unregistered CommenterJiminy Cricket

Until the disgraced racist bully went too far and had to be sacked, taking his entertainment package to Amazon.

But yeah, Tesla brought a lawsuit against TG after their dishonest trashing of the Roadster, the judge dismissed the case saying that anyone who takes Clarkson seriously is a damn fool.

I think you'll find Top Gear's weekly infomercial for the Infernal Combustion Engine drew an audience at least an order of magnitude greater than a documentary on Radio 4.

Jan 11, 2018 at 8:42 AM | Unregistered CommenterPhil Clarke

Jan 11, 2018 at 8:42 AM | Phil Clarke

Not many battery tractors on BBC Countryfile, despite the Green Blob's twisting of actual life in the country.

Jan 11, 2018 at 12:03 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

There are electric tractors

John Deere


Phil Clarke

As a sometime EV owner (I'm guessing you're not) I can tell you that range anxiety is real and real world infrastructure requires dramatic improvement if one wants to do anything resembling the utility of a petrol / diesel / gas vehicle. EVs are fine for set routes where charging is adequately provisioned. I know of people who've bought EVs for a commute only to find that range over hilly terrain is nowhere near that claimed and they had to drive without the heater on in cold weather to complete the journey.

As for Top Gear - James May actually used his own money for a BMW EV - which obviously works for him in the urban London environment - much less so for 200 mile + motorway journeys out into the sticks where the charging points are few and far between, often broken (or have the wrong connectors/tech) and covered in a film, of green algae.

A personal gripe - the greens idiotic treatment of gas powered vehicles is inexcusable and has led to a significantly worse pollution in the UK's cities than would be the case if they had embraced the cleaner tech. London buses are a case in point - TfL and their associated loony green claque are deluded money grubbing bandits driven by fashion rather than pragmatic engineering driven outcomes.

Jan 11, 2018 at 12:48 PM | Registered Commentertomo

So now it's Thursday and the BBC Local news just did a EV promotion item
just like ITV did on Monday
any PR connection ?
\\ \\@RolecEV
Check out @BBCLookNorth tonight at 6:30pm to see one of our EV experts in action 🎬#evcharging #electricvehicles #greenmotoring #BBC //

18:47pm BBC Look North just went in a long item promoting electric cars
..wonder if it’s the same in other regions

Intro then Katie Austin
“Vicki uses her electric car to do the school run and getting to work”
..”I really do love it….”
“but this model only goes 80 miles on one charge”

“cars like this are becoming but more common but slowly”
… In this area for new cars only 1% one of the lowest in the country (‘please buy one’ face)

Jan 11, 2018 at 10:32 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Sunday ; I see at least one region will be doing an item promoting electric cars
..I play some proper critical thinking and contexting
but it will probably be
.."And soon we too can be like Norway"

Jan 11, 2018 at 10:34 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

I see Phil our friend from FoE PR claims BBC Top Gear ridicules electric cars
Looks like one thing BBC are doing since getting rid of their old Top Gear Team is pushing their GreenDream Religion
Prepare for the rise of the EV as electrification comes of age in 2018

BBC The #1 Free Advertising platform for Green PR people

there's more on their Twiter Timeline
I don't recall them ever doing an item about the way Tesla abandoned the rollout of its battery swap station.

And we know that on BBC WS Rory Cellan-Jones promotes Tesla so often, you'd think he's their major shareholder.
...Proper Musk Fanboy

Jan 11, 2018 at 10:44 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

It was reported that an Indian minister stood up the other day and claimed
'by 2030 Only Electric Cars will be sold in India"

Hmm breaks my "too wow to be true rule"

\\ @nitin_gadkari's statement by 2030 there will be only electric cars
and the reality is
No plan at present to have all electric car fleet by 2030: Government //

Bit different from UK where dumb politicians make dumb off the cuff promises and then pigheadedly try to stick to them

Jan 11, 2018 at 11:01 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Times : Seems PSA is pressuring the UK gov to turn the Vauxhall Ellsmere Port into an EV factory
... after a subsidy I guess

Jan 11, 2018 at 11:09 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Re : Jan 11, 2018 at 10:32 PM
I worry about BBC staff being too close to Greenblob PR & activists
..sure enough when Look North tweeted the electric car item an activist tweeted positively about them
- I of course replied that they'd forgotten to mention the £4,500 subsidy & free road tax we all for him
- he sneered back twice
I replied civilly twice.

So why am I now blocked by BBC Look North ?

Jan 20, 2018 at 4:02 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Mail biz section: soft article about Musk
"His company makes ECONOMIC electric cars"
..nope the opposite

He was not the founder of Paypal rather his biz merged with Paypal so when it floated he got only £120m

Jan 20, 2018 at 4:11 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Local papers aren't really local, but rather many stories are made at the same time in a remote office by creating a template and plugging local details in.
"North Lincolnshire joining the green revolution as electric car ownership soars"
Right they mean that there were 2 cars and now there are 3 ?
Alright the council and virtue signalling orgs have a few cars.
So yes 52 were bought last year adding to existing 82
At that rate in 100 years time they'll be 5,000 electric cars
..then you get to bottom that 5,000 would be 5%
Cos our area has almost 100,000 cars.
There's another trick it says "plug in vehicles", so that's not 100% electric , but includes hybrid cars.

Feb 22, 2018 at 3:19 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

If I was picking winners I would definitely go with the hybrids.

Although I haven't purchased either, they seem to be able to overcome many of the most serious drawbacks of the fully electric vehicles. As technological intermediates, they also allow the serious bulk vehicle manufacturers to profitably evolve their way towards something that could satisfy most reasonable people and policy makers.

The most rabid greens are, of course, simply neither reasonable nor even consistently logical. They will never get what they think they want. I get more than a little bit of schadenfreude that the BBC has given so much free advertising to Tesla, because Tesla is totally going to tank, even with more free money from the California state government. When Tesla either disappears completely or is just swallowed up by a real car manufacturer for the fire sale price of 1$ (one Dollar) after insolvency, it is going to embarrass the BBC severely

Feb 24, 2018 at 11:41 AM | Unregistered Commentermichael hart

BBC Tech Tent
an expert said 'I've been trying to say for years that there are fundamental problems'
'eg if someone wants to rob you, they just stand in front of the car and it will stop
..if you were driving yourself you'd have the choice to reverse away or drive at them'

Mar 9, 2018 at 2:15 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen