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Discussion > Tango about Paris

" I listened in vain to BBC Radio’s Today programme this morning for a single speaker suggesting Trump might have a point. There was none. This was not a news programme. It was propaganda."
from a new article from Melanie Phillips

Jun 2, 2017 at 10:08 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

10 mins of the Mayor of Miami avoiding answering the simple question.
How does the US giving money to India, with no rule that it must reduce its CO2 help the flooding in Miami beach ?
Tucker Carlson

Jun 2, 2017 at 11:08 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

The EU could always have a Referendum to confirm that they have a 97% Consensus amongst the electorates that they haven't dared to ask.

Obviously this would require the EU to produce the evidence that they are relying on

I wonder whether they would include anything from this list, or any of the co-Authors?

There is always that reliable Hockey Stick Graph by Michael Mann, that Mann does not want to defend in Court.

Or the 97% Consensus, the co-authors from Skeptical Science and The Guardian reliance on the 97% Consensus. Perhaps there is a financial link?

Jun 3, 2017 at 1:47 AM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Alternatively, The Mad Hatters Tango in Paris

Jun 3, 2017 at 1:57 AM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

As Ron Clutz points out at cliscep:

"Note that those attacking Trump’s decision do not address his case for withdrawing. They keep on repeating claims about how the science says global warming is dangerous and how it is our fault. Trump never took issue with any of that. Instead he attacked the weakest alarmist flank, the totally inadequate mitigation program. He stated that the US is withdrawing because of the very small benefits from the hugely expensive program, and because of the unfair burden placed on the US relative to other countries."

The eco-fascists cannot answer that simple logic. So they don't even try. The MSM has been deeply depressing in its overly-simplistic and utterly predictable hysterical response to what was undoubtedly a very sensible decision on Trump's part.

Jun 3, 2017 at 8:17 AM | Unregistered CommenterMark Hodgson

The Vatican, which under Pope Francis' insistence has strongly backed the Paris climate change deal, has branded Donald Trump’s decision a “disaster” and a “huge slap in the face”.

A furious Bishop Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo, head of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, hit out at the US President.

In an interview with Italian newspaper La Repubblica, he said a withdrawal "would not only be a disaster but completely unscientific. Saying that we need to rely on coal and oil is like saying that the Earth is not round. It is an absurdity dictated by the need to make money."
Express: Vatican compares Trump to FLAT EARTH believers after he pulls US out of climate deal

It is NOT a need to make money that drives the industry. Though, without making money, the industry would disappear or require subsidies and make everyone else poorer, whether they liked it or not! (Irony intended!)

It is a need for lighting and to keep warm! Other needs include: medicines, road surfaces, roofing, fuel for international non-profit-making organisations' 4*4s, private jets and all other transportation (including for people and goods), tractors, fertilisers, lubricants, dyes, plastics, soaps, synthetic cloth (for clothing, tents and cleaning cloths), driving manufacturing machinery, and in the chemical industry for heating chemicals or used directly, like in making steel or aluminium.

It is also used to make candles. :)

Believing that global climate change models are reality is idolatry:
AmericanThinker: Idolatry in Science

This is a case of an Argentine Tango, not in time with the music.

Jun 3, 2017 at 12:00 PM | Registered CommenterRobert Christopher

Jun 3, 2017 at 8:17 AM | Mark Hodgson

I am someone who did trust Climate Scientists. I was wrong!

Manmade CO2 was found guilty, without there ever being a trial, or cross-examination of expert witnesses.

If the Science/Maths/Voodoo Magic says the atmosphere MUST warm up, with increased CO2, I am in no position to argue. My own personal observations and knowledge suggest it has in my lifetime, but no more dramatically than it ever has before.

Trump is adopting a "Lukewarmer" approach, not challenging the basic science, but stating that the consequences are overstated/exaggerated. Trump (and possibly the next UK Prime Minister?) can simply ask for a review of all the predictions/projections made by Climate Scientists, Green Blob Scaremongers and Economists.

In Legal Terms, this would be a challenge to the Authoity of the UNacountable UNelected and UNchallenged UN IPCC. Trump may be looking to cut total US Funding of the UN anyway, so if Trump invites Climate Scientists to justify the predictions and forecasts made under the guise of the UN IPCC, he may provide electorates all over the EU and the rest of the world with some interesting questions to ask their politicians.

Trump can decide to find Climate Science "Guilty" without a trial, or evidence. It will then be up to Climate Scientists to prove themselves "innocent".

Jun 3, 2017 at 12:18 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

There's a graph which was in the NYT a couple of years ago which Tony Heller highlights in a recent video, which makes the same point as Ron Clutz. It shows that the USA CO2 emissions are now declining yet China's are still increasing, and will do for many years, so why should the USA (and the UK for that matter) impose significant economic costs on our businesses and citizens, when these will bring no perceptible benefits to anyone?

The Fake And Illegal Paris "Climate" Treaty

My conclusion is that assassignation of Trump would just be too obvious (and probably instigate a civil war in some states), so they are just getting the MSM media to shred him until he is forced to resign.

Jun 3, 2017 at 1:49 PM | Registered Commenterlapogus

Jun 3, 2017 at 12:18 PM by golf charlie

Being a lukewarmer is part of the terminology from the Climate Science bubble philosophy, as is being guilty of damaging Mother Earth.

Trump is removing funding because the Climate Change agenda is damaging the well being of his constituents. This is the driver because, as you say, the Climate Change consequences are overstated/exaggerated.

People, even individual states within the US, (or the UN itself), will be free to support what they want to, as long as it is within the law: after all it is a free country, but Climate Change Science and it's ramifications won't be subsidised by US taxpayers, or given credibility by being supported by their government prestige. It will fade, eventually.

Yes, what will happen in the UK? I would be surprised if it comes up for discussion in the next week: too many things need to be settled before it can be discussed with any chance of a credible outcome.

I wonder how the Mann vs Steyn court case will develop? What's another year!

Jun 3, 2017 at 1:59 PM | Registered CommenterRobert Christopher

Robert Christopher, I think a lot of Climate Scientists will readjust their own stance (having practised on their data, again) reinvent themselves as Lukewarmers, and claim to have been right all along.

Considering the amount of flak and smear dished out to Judith Curry (as the most high profile Lukewarmer) and many, many others, via Blogs and other Media including "respected" Scientific bodies, and the number of National Laws and policies enacted around the world, I am not sure that Climate Science advocates will find it easy to erase their own legacy.

Would you like your fish and chips with a sprinking of ocean acidification sir?

Jun 3, 2017 at 3:10 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Iapogus. I seem to recall a study which showed that the territory of the USA actually removed CO2 from the atmosphere that passed over it. In which case Trump should demand recompense for this service. However, as we know CO2 is a net benefit in which case the USA should indeed be paying the rest of the world.

Jun 3, 2017 at 3:17 PM | Unregistered CommenterSupertroll

golfCharlie. And a happy and prosperous Covfefe to you Sir (or Madame).

Jun 3, 2017 at 3:41 PM | Unregistered CommenterSupertroll

Jun 3, 2017 at 3:41 PM | Supertroll

"LEAVE IT TO Donald Trump to keep Twitter guessing. Just after midnight Eastern this morning, the president did what the president often does at odd hours: He sent out a tweet. But this one, rather than attacking a political opponent or offering up a 140-character policy position, just plain made no sense: “Despite the constant negative press covfefe.” Wait, “covfefe”? No one knew what it meant"

Is this Bishop Hill Call My Bluff?

COVFEFE, (pronounced Kerfafee) A US Presidential, single word abbreviation for "kerfuffle of faking ferktwitz".

Sounds plausible to me

Jun 3, 2017 at 4:14 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Jesus Trump was just letting world media and Libmob show how they live on a different planet
by letting the tweet sit
He tweeted
“Despite the constant negative press covfefe.” Wait, “covfefe”?
and the press pretended ..oh what could this mean ?
... following their habit of constructing narratives out of nothing

Last night @bbclaurak Laura Kuenssberg Tweeted
"All main leaders out and about this morn, on @bbcnews – major event Toniajwsss"
..oh what could this mean ?
Maybe that like Trump are busy do a tweet, get distracted by someone, your finger slips and you press send without checking ..she meant TONIGHT he meant COVERAGE story so get a life

BTW "Harry Redknapp tried to sign both #Covfefe and #Toniajwsss for Spurs."

Jun 3, 2017 at 5:56 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

LibMob sent 30 tweets of hate cos the BBC Radio4 1pm news dared to air Roger Helmer

By all accounts he did a pretty good job in the 3 min bit
Direct link to interview
"costs hundreds of trillions of dollars yet by IPCC calculations will hold down temperatures by no more than 0.3C"
Presenter "Tesla supports Paris"
... of course he gets subsidies
"Exxon feel that restrictions on CO2 will increase the value of their gas investments"

Jun 3, 2017 at 6:19 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

@CraigKellyMP from Aistralia was even better,
claiming even if you accept all their dodgy assumptions by their own figures only 0.17C will be avaoided
1 min of video
The longer interview is somewhere in the middle of the podcast

Jun 3, 2017 at 6:35 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Jun 3, 2017 at 5:56 PM | stewgreen

Trump must be very pleased to know how many people read his tweets.

Jun 3, 2017 at 7:57 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Jun 3, 2017 at 8:19 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

oopsThat was my typo not Trump's
All his Twitter tweeted was
“Despite the constant negative press covfefe."

and the press pretended ..oh what could this mean ?
Instead of understanding that someone in the middle of writing a tweet about press coverage had accidentally ended up sending a tweet before finishing ..and hadn't immediately noticed if something more important had come up

Jun 3, 2017 at 10:03 PM | Unregistered Commenterstewgreen

Jun 3, 2017 at 10:03 PM | stewgreen

Trump should Trademark "Covfefe off!" as it could achieve world wide popularity as a response to the Green Blob's attempts to appropriate other people's money.

Jun 3, 2017 at 11:56 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

From an enlighted one

Jun 4, 2017 at 2:21 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

7:10 Radio 4 Faith prog

“Following President Trump’s announcement that the United States is to pull out of the 2015 Paris climate agreement, Emily Buchanan hears from the journalist Sarah Posner, on the religious reaction in the US;
and from the former Bishop of Liverpool James Jones, who spent a decade trying to persuade US evangelicals to take climate change seriously. (seems he was edited out due to terrorAttack”

SP said "extraordinary negative reaction of the Catholic churches"
said "most WHITE evangelicals support him put it with Evolution"
other faiths Jewish Muslim opposed it "abdication of responsibility"
"storm droughts floods will be a result of the pullout" ends at 21m30

Tweeter comments : Pope expert on CO2 reduction ! Surely opposing #contraception is the BIGGEST threat to increasing CO2

Sarah Posner seems barking : She's not tweeted about terror, her last retweet was

6. But unlike Nixon post-Watergate, Trump will have a personality cult & a media infrastructure (Fox) devoted to conspiracy mongering.
She added : "Trump has megachurch/televangelist infrastructure that Nixon didn't have.
Was built post-Nixon *by GOP.* Trump a beneficiary."
Thats a barking thread of LibMob having conspiracy theories
about OTHER PEOPLE "having conspiracy theories"
ie projection

Spot any Libwoolly stuff in the rest of the prog?

“The Church of England will discuss a proposal to offer a service to celebrate the renaming of people who have had a sex-change”

Seems live show made of recorded items
So began with Dean of Southwark Cathedral
Min 8:00 “Our church is where Sadiq chose to begin his mayoralty
We are committed to inclusion and diversity”
Min 9 moved onto recorded Manchester item about Muslim doctors

Jun 4, 2017 at 11:12 AM | Unregistered Commenterstewgreen

She thinks 'hate crime' is worse that actual terror
Tweeted May 29
"Trump has a very long history of winking and nodding with white supremacists".

Jun 4, 2017 at 11:26 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

"oooh the US won;t make the Paris Climate goals "

Go on then name a country that made the Kyoto target

..was it a signatory ?

... (AFAIK the US made the goals due to fracking )

Jun 4, 2017 at 11:45 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

However, when we look at the facts, we see that Merkel and the German climate activists are truly living a fake reality.

The real reality is that Germany has done virtually nothing at all to reduce its CO2 emissions over the past years.

No GHG emissions reductions in 8 years!

And despite all of Merkel’s pontification and Trump-scolding on climate protection, her own country, Germany, has itself not cut back on greenhouse gas emissions in 8 years!
Note that Germany’s drop since 1990 comes mostly as a result of shutting down former communist-run East Germany, after the fall of the Iron Curtain.

US in fact has far outperformed Germany

The real progress on CO2 reductions has in fact come the USA (thanks to fracking), and here we are not talking pocket change. The following chart [in link] shows how much US CO2 emissions have fallen: from 6 billion tonnes of CO2 annually to under 5.3 billion tonnes in 2015.
This means the US has cut carbon dioxide emissions by over 700 million tonnes since 2005 – a 12% drop. That drop almost amounts to Germany’s total annual CO2 emissions (796 million tonnes).

NoTricksZone: Merkel’s Phony CO2 Policy… U.S. REDUCTIONS Making Huge Progress As Germany Does Nothing

Jun 4, 2017 at 12:41 PM | Registered CommenterRobert Christopher