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Discussion > General Election 2017 ?

golf charlie
Thanks for that, my thoughts precisely hopefully someone will explain the facts of life to those in the UK government who think otherwise. PSA have an agreement with a Chinese company and the Citroen Eylsee is manufactured there.and in Spain, so steps are being taken there too. I have seen one in a dealers here, it is uglier than the Xsara if such a thing is possible. 2017 C-Eylsee available in France most are for export outside the EU though.

Yes spoiling ballots seems quite common, especially in the second round although this was particularly high. I suspect there may be "Left" and Fillon supporters in the spoilt papers. Many of Fillon's core supporters, or so our French friends think, felt he was subjected to an orchestrated campaign including fake news. I think that Macron who claims he wants to reform French Government and industry and has a bit of a track record of reform may have been better placed to pick up Fillonists than Le Pen. For many Marine Le Pen carries too much FN baggage; it may fall to Marion Maréchal-Le Pen to break to mould in France. She'll be in her mid-thirties in 2022 so if given a high profile by her aunt who knows what might happen.

In that there are an almost infinite variations on the sort of agreement that will be hammered out between the two sides saying that some will be better than others in the short/medium term doesn't seem out of order to me. Being a Private Frazer on one hand or a King Oedipus on the other; or just having a Wilkins Micawber hope for the future doesn't appeal either. I'd like a bit of pragmatism and getting past the current megaphone negotiations ASAP.

I see in the Daily Mail Online that The Tories have a 22% lead in the polls. with support not far short of twice that for Labour. I suspect the more that Junckers and Tusk try and force a bad deal on the UK the more Mrs May's support will rise. Not necessarily a good thing. There is nothing like an outside enemy to unite a nation behind the leader. Those who voted remain don't want the process to end up in with a deal that makes it look like Greece was well treated by the EU, and those in favour of Brexit will just have their views confirmed and become even more obdurate and less inclined to take a softening of the EU position as trustworthy. On the plus side Macron doesn't want a race to the bottom with the UK tax and tariffs, perhaps he will be able to explain the facts of life to Juncker in particular. I'm not holding my breathe.

May 8, 2017 at 6:05 PM | Unregistered CommenterSandyS

I think the Cameron government realised a huge mistake had been made in choosing the F35B but it was too late to change the design of the QE2, at a reasonable cost*, to handle the F35C. Again the French seem to have made a better decision in making the CDG capable of handling USN aircraft like the F18. Whether the design of the PoW should have been modified is a moot point

* I'm not sure of what sort of cost analysis was made, in the cost of modifying the QE2 as opposed to the savings in buying 50 aircraft such as the Rafale or F/A18 Hornets at a fraction of the price of the original choice of aircraft. I think Rafales come in at around 150M$ a piece I assume the UK hasn't got a fixed price contract for the American plane so the costs of fixing all the "teething" problems will be added to the cost per aircraft.

May 8, 2017 at 6:27 PM | Unregistered CommenterSandyS

May 8, 2017 at 6:05 PM | SandyS

Thank you. Macron now has to avoid upsetting, letting down, or breaking promises to 65% of the population.

Rather like the SNP, his support has got as high as it is ever likely to. He COULD become the youngest "Elder Statesman" of the EU.

May 8, 2017 at 6:57 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie


With all due respect you really do not seem to understand the F35B/ QE2 class carrier situation, if I knew so little about a subject then I would not comment.

May 8, 2017 at 10:47 PM | Registered CommenterDung

That seems a bit harsh, why not enlighten me as you are a world expert.

Seeing as we're now down to exchanging insults!

May 9, 2017 at 7:45 AM | Unregistered CommenterSandyS

on reflection don't bother, I've got better things to do with my time than trade insults with you and stewgreen. It;s easy to drop a once or twice a day visit here down to zero. You can then spend your time in blissful happiness with your mates here.

May 9, 2017 at 8:00 AM | Unregistered CommenterSandyS

SandyS, over the last 200 years or so, Britain has become very good at preparing to fight the next war, on the basis that the latest enemy will fight in exactly the same way as the last one.

Due to assumptions made about the EU Defence Force, 5+ years ago (?), we don't have any aircraft carriers, or planes to fly from them.

The superiority of one plane, having a Go-Faster Stripe, and better Hand-Brake Turn capability, over another with a rear spoiler and colour coded bumpers is slightly beyond me.

Osama Bin Laden destroyed the Twin Towers with legally purchased airline tickets. The UK has no more defence to that type of technology than the US.

NATO is over. We need an alliance with THIS US Government in the short term.

May 9, 2017 at 8:39 AM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

SandyS. Please continue your visits here. I for one greatly enjoy your comments, especially your take upon La Belle France, even though detailed coverage of military aircraft capabilities leaves me cold.
A considerable time ago you gave me extremely useful advice on how to survive in this sometimes hostile environment (advice that I am still most grateful for and which I practice). Might I, with considerable respect, propose that you take your own advice - ignore insults where possible and back away from topics that get too intense. Best wishes from a troll.

May 9, 2017 at 8:43 AM | Unregistered CommenterSupertroll

Sandy S & golf charlie.

I'm just back from holiday (blissfully internet-free) and am just catching up. I just wanted to thank you both for your observations, which I always find of interest.

May 9, 2017 at 9:21 AM | Unregistered CommenterMark Hodgson


I have always liked and respected you and it was not my intention to turn you away.
There are many subjects upon which your knowledge seems to me to be immense; religion, Scotland, France and history in general, I would not consider arguing the facts with you on any of those subjects. I do not believe your knowledge of defence is even close to those other subjects, is it so bad that I say so? Defence is one of my 'things', I trained as a pilot for a period in the RAF and I follow defence news everyday.
No offence intended 'onest guv.

May 9, 2017 at 1:42 PM | Registered CommenterDung

NATO is over. We need an alliance with THIS US Government in the short term.

May 9, 2017 at 8:39 AM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

I hadn't thought about it so directly, but you are correct. The raison d'être of NATO is gone. I do not fear a Russian tank invasion into Europe, despite what fears Hilarious Clinton may wish to invoke for her 2020 election campaign. The Russians may indeed be ruled by a totalitarian, but that is nothing new. He is not an idiot and really not one of our pressing problems.

The saddest thing is still people who claim that global warming is our pressingest problem. But now we now at least have a US President who admits that claim to be complete arse. We might be able to actually fix some things by working with the Russian government at arms length, though some military-supply industries may disagree...

May 9, 2017 at 7:48 PM | Unregistered Commentermichael hart

May 9, 2017 at 7:48 PM | michael hart

The relationship between the US and UN is going to change. The UN can no longer rely on US Funding and US Military back-up, for action that Trump does not agree with.

It makes no difference whether it is fighting Climate Change, or "dealing with" North Korea, Trump will want to do it his way, not handover billion$ to the UN.

Trump has already demonstrated he is willing to use US Military force, without putting a US boot on Foreign soil.

Whatever the design and selection criteria were, for the new Aircraft, and Aircraft Carriers, they are not the same now. NATO has been a success. Unfortunately, the Peace Dividend has been wasted on fighting Global Warming. When the US stops funding Climate Science, "we" can stop fighting "Climate Change", and leave it all to the EU, as they deem appropriate.

May 9, 2017 at 10:46 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

golf charlie

"When the US stops funding Climate Science, "we" can stop fighting "Climate Change", and leave it all to the EU,"

Yes we can stop but I do not think May will stop based on decisions made so far.

May 9, 2017 at 11:59 PM | Registered CommenterDung

Eat your cake and still have it.

The Bloc Québécois refused to sign on to the report and the party's spokesman on the committee, MP Osvaldo Nunez, a native of Chile who has embraced Quebec separatism, said that elimination of dual citizenship would be "a fantastic provocation against Quebec." Nunez said the rule was clearly aimed at Quebec's push for separatism and the PQ's promise that Canadian citizenship wouldn't be lost to Quebecers even if they decide to go. "We are in favour of dual citizenship without any restriction," Nunez said


Great Scots, Plains of Abraham really did pay off

May 10, 2017 at 3:19 AM | Unregistered Commenterclipe

Two DT leader articles in one week have now pointed out that nobody knows what May will do when she has got her crushing parliamentary majority; Charles Moore and Fraser Nelson. Glad someone else cares ^.^

May 13, 2017 at 11:10 AM | Registered CommenterDung

May 13, 2017 at 11:10 AM | Dung
If you can list those bits of Climate Science derived Legislation that are still under the control of the UK Government, whilst we remain bound by the EU, I would love to know what they are.

May scrapped DECC.

Scrapping the Climate Change Act would enable 97% of the country to breathe better, and reduce everyone's bills, but "most" of the EU Legislation is based on the UK's Climate Change Act, prepared by Bryony Worthington (now Baroness) of "Friends of the Earth".

I agree it is a scandal, and 97% of MPs (of ALL Political flavours) voted for it. What do YOU expect Prime Minister May to do about it, in June?

May 13, 2017 at 12:48 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Firstly I would have listed the Climate Change act which is self imposed, then I would have listed the Nuclear program which has got the government promising to pay ridiculous rates for electricity for the next 30 years.
The climate change act could not be repealed yet because the Tory majority is too small but it would be easy to amend the targets and so justify a change in policy. Once the act had been amended it would be possible to use Gas fired electricity generation economically.
The EU targets for CO2 emissions do not distiguish between countries, it is a target that all EU countries contribute to, Germany has taken a very low target because of their coal fired power stations, why did we not fight for a lower share of the EU target?
Nick Timothy is May's one man think tank and the author of the manifesto and he has already gone into print with his opinion that the Climate Change act being the most 'self destructive' act ever written so it will be very interesting to see if May allows him to change/amend it.

May 13, 2017 at 2:55 PM | Registered CommenterDung

Dung, it is my understanding that scrapping the Climate Change Act will have no benefit UNTIL BREXIT is complete.

EU Legislation takes precedence over UK Legislation. That is why I applaud Nigel Farage for what he has achieved in bringing about BREXIT.

Successive Labour AND Conservative Prime Ministers progressively signed away the rights of the UK (without a Parliamentary Vote or National Referendum) to determine what is the Law in the UK, with a series of Treaties and Agreements. UK v. EU Constitutional Law is NOT something I claim to know much about, but if your understanding is different, please explain.

Decisions/Verdicts of the Highest UK Court can be challenged and over ruled by Europe. I would imagine that would be higher on the list of things to correct, than the Climate Change Act,, otherwise any decisions made possible by BREXIT could be taken to the European Court......

May 13, 2017 at 10:08 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Likewise I am no expert on the law so if we can not agree I will go read it up ^.^
However it is the CCA that stipulates that we must always use renewable energy when it is available and that is what causes us to try and use gas and coal as back up which the owners of the gas turbines will not do without subsidies because it does not suit the plant being switched on and off. I do not believe EU law prevents fossil fuel being used otherwise Germany would not have been able to build a shedload of coal fired plant over recent years. The CCA also sets a tougher target for lowering emissions than the EU sets (but obviously they do not mind that). Even my Conservative MP during the coalition told me it was the CCA I should be complaining about and he was on the Climate Change Committee.

May 14, 2017 at 12:13 PM | Registered CommenterDung

May 9, 2017 at 8:00 AM @SandyS
" trade insults with you and stewgreen"
@stewgreen does NOT insult people as far as I know ...I think sometime people may imagine them.

May 14, 2017 at 6:44 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

"CCA that stipulates that we must always use renewable energy when it is available "

If it does that then it runs counter to the principle of minimising CO2
..which is surely the aim , s o it should be OK to break it

May 14, 2017 at 6:49 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen


I did not know that you had a problem with SandyS but then I did not know that I had a problem either. I wish I had not got onto Defence but Kim said she did not understand why the costs of the 3 different versions of F35 were so different so I tried to explain it to her. Then lots of people were saying things that I did not agree with so of course I jump in with both feet as usual ^.^

May 14, 2017 at 7:44 PM | Registered CommenterDung


The CCA does not say that we should minimise CO2 emissions in general, it sets specific targets. However we are no where near hitting them, so they seem a bit irrelevant which makes the gesture of giving renwable energy a priority totally pointless ^.^

May 14, 2017 at 7:49 PM | Registered CommenterDung

Dung, my cynical guess would be that when the UK is no longer answerable to Friends of the Earth/Greenpeace etc via the UK's disastrous Climate Change Act and similarly calamitous legislation from the EU, some form of Environmental/EnergyEfficiency Act will take its place.

I was living and working outside the UK and EU in 2008, and slightly out of touch with English news media, when the Ed and Bryony disastrous double act, collaborated with Friends of the Earth to destroy UK industry, jobs, manufacturing etc. I presume emotional blackmail was applied to all MPs to get the Climate Change Act passed with such overwhelming support.

It remains to be seen whether any Opposition MPs will remain confident enough in Climate Science to risk further election misery in 4/5 years time. I would love to see the Climate Change Act scrapped immediately. I suspect it will be "replaced" along with reams of legislation as part of BREXIT.

Whether the EU imposes punitive taxes on goods (cars?) manufactured in countries without EU Approved Global Warming Policies, could be part of BREXIT negotiations. Would it be wise for the UK to declare intentions now? Will French and German manufacturers (of cars?) accept the UK having a competitive edge, by NOT being constrained by calamitous climate claptrap?

May 14, 2017 at 9:17 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie


Well the manifesto comes out on Thursday :P

May 15, 2017 at 12:51 PM | Registered CommenterDung