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Discussion > Drs against Diesel : A subsidy mafia Front

Thu quotes Samantha Walker
45K/yr get asthma
10K fewer would if UK pollution was within UN limits

That is all hearsay
It does context by saying 1.1m Brotons have asthma

I've seen figs of 5m

AFAIK pollution doesn't cause asthma, rather it can make existing conditions worse.

Aug 10, 2019 at 3:30 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Wednesday : Claim ground level ozone might cause emphysema
quotes Penny Woods again.
7 UK spots have ozone at more than 3 parts per billion

There are some notes

Obviously most us don't get emphysema
The question would be how many life days would be saved.
I wonder how they control for other variables eg having an open fire, or working with chemicals, living with a smoker etc.

Aug 14, 2019 at 5:08 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

The Times campaign to me has always seemed bogus.
Not a genuine exercise in truth seeking
byt rather an advertising OR exercise where they cutNpaste material that supports their narrative.

Wednesday Denmark/Chicago study that claims "Living in polluted areas is linked to RISK of mental health problems"
but then it mentions it is controversial and criticised by JPA Ioannidis

tlhat is important cos he a brilliant guy who published the paper
Ioannidis JPA (2005), Why most published research findings are false.

Ah his statement is part of the paper

Aug 21, 2019 at 4:26 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Mon pg2 claim that a quarter of hospital have dangerous air pollution.
Quotes Penny Woods again

Most hospitals are not situated in dangerous areas
I gues. you can cherry pick one corner of a big site.

Aug 21, 2019 at 6:45 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Thursday : NEJM study claims more people die when pollution is high usual it sounds like tosh
must be some data toorturing
old people die when they die, they don't wait for a high pollution day.
but might die cos the day is not sunny and happy.

Aug 24, 2019 at 3:49 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Tues 27th no diesel story
just these two
#1 Big companies must pay carbon tax now,
... says BP’s former chief Lord Browne.
He felt that large companies are currently not properly ‘incentivised' to reduce pollution

Why use the word "pollution" when you mean non-pollutant CO2 ?
.. ah PR

Sep 4, 2019 at 2:56 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

#1a He goes on against fracking
despite that he was a Cuadrilla director

Then use pollution to mean particulates
#2 Mossy Walls Devour pollution 250 trees’ worth of pollution
Walls of moss are popping up in cities in an effort to cut pollution. Each 4m vertical slab is designed to “eat” ultra-fine airborne particles that can travel deep into the lungs and pass into the bloodstream, posing a serious risk to health.

Well since trees don't devour pollution
The tree canopy just holds in the local air and then the rmain washes the particulaes out.

If the moss doesact like a lung then particultes might well setlle on its moist surface area
The claim is its the bacteria that devour the particulates

I reckon if you just ran a mist spray you could more effectively wash particulates out of the air.

Sep 4, 2019 at 3:06 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Yes, SG. Things like electrostatic dust-precipitation work very well in modern coal-fired power stations.

This is a problem with the world we currently live in: Non-engineers and environmental activists (I deliberately avoid the use of the word scientist to describe them) get to invent exaggerated problems, and then other non-engineers get to invent sub-optimal solutions.

When the right tool for the job is coupled with competent people then many problems can be fixed remarkably quickly.

Sep 5, 2019 at 7:09 PM | Unregistered Commentermichael hart

2 stories in the Yorkshire Post

#1 Sheffield the 857 Black cab drivers are supposed to switch to EVs
but 100 have quit rather than buy a £58K taxi
The talk is that Euro 6 standard might be banned.

#2 In Leeds the Clean Air zone will allow Euro 6 , but not 3 year old Euro5 trucks/vans etc.
Federation say that makes their resale value low.

Sep 6, 2019 at 4:21 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Thursday Times outragebus
Only 40 schools have introduced "school streets" where traffic is completely banned.

Yes cos in most places outside London you can just close an entire street.
Whilst in other areas you wouldn't bother cos a street might have very few school cars anyway.

Sep 7, 2019 at 3:45 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen


we won't hear any measurements of the reductions in pollution - because they aren't measuring it and they won't measure it.

No evidence for the symptoms and no proof of the cure for victims of an affliction that can't be shown to be a real thing....

Sep 7, 2019 at 10:24 PM | Registered Commentertomo

vs, stabbings, shootings, acid attacks

- all part of living in Khan's London.

Sep 7, 2019 at 10:57 PM | Registered Commentertomo

My typo there can = can't
Thursday Times outragebus
Only 40 schools have introduced "school streets" where traffic is completely banned.
Yes cos in most places outside London you CAN'T just close an entire street.
Whilst in other areas you wouldn't bother, cos a street might have very few school cars anyway.

Sep 12, 2019 at 4:20 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

They are measuring the reductions in pollution. Unfortunately, I've not been able to find historical comparison data at the 1km grid square level, but it must exist, since the maps have been produced for a number of years now.

At the overall national level, NAEI have charts per pollutant and causing sector going back quite some decades - to 1970 in most cases.

You never see this information referred to in the media.

Sep 14, 2019 at 8:24 PM | Unregistered CommenterIt doesn't add up...


The mapping is something I found years ago - but honestly - looking at some of the local detail (ground truthing) - makes me very leery of relying on anything in the dataset underlying the presentation. The absence of data provenance is not confidence inspiring - one of the local sites shown was at least 15 years out of date and 500+ meters away from where is was supposed to be ... at least 4 other comparable sites were missing altogether.

Sep 15, 2019 at 5:24 PM | Registered Commentertomo

The same kind of people who are screaming about London air pollution and kids
..are loving this Twitter video of a 5-year old Chinese kid cooking rice for his tiny over an OPEN WOOD FIRE
.. The both of them are breathing air pollution 1000 times worse than those London streets.

Sep 16, 2019 at 4:03 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

re Browne of Madingley

he's an inveterate virtue signaller - as I noted in unthreaded - he came amusingly unstuck trying to foist some SW1 virtue onto the Angolan gubbermint with "ethical oil from Angola". They told him in no uncertain terms to shut up or have BP's assets seized and handed to a competitor. I seem to recall he was in post during the extended hi-jinx/partying in Azerbaijan too.....

Sep 16, 2019 at 9:05 PM | Registered Commentertomo

Interesting that the PR agency called ITVnews are now on board with the #DieselsRpaedos campaign
Today they started a weeks worth of PR pushing electric cars

Then they just tweeted this
"Air pollution particles can reach placenta during pregnancy, study finds"

Is that actually harmful ?

Sep 18, 2019 at 1:19 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

The Times carries that placenta story on one of its 2 eco pages today
The article doesn't explain why it is considered dangerous.

My immediate thought is today's incidence is way lower than when we had coal/wood fires in every house.
Any effect should have shown up in season of birth ie pregnancy in summer would mean low incidence.

Sep 18, 2019 at 5:02 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Tuesday Times front page promoted a website by activist group COPI
which gives doorstep pollution for houses for sale.
The claim was it will lop 20 % off the value of those houses.

Funny since property barons alreat know thst London houses are more polluted that lther towns yet still pay 5 fold more for those properties.

Sep 18, 2019 at 5:34 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Monday the 9th both main PR operations (GranthAm and ECIU) retweeted the Times front page story
New Air Pollution Bill "‘will save thousands of lives a year’".
The bill - to be discussed tomorrow at parliamentary launch of #CleanAirForAll -would require government to adopt tighter limits based on @WHO
recommendations "
"drawn up by a coalition of environmental groups ... plus scientists"

Tosh I see the odd super dirty car in every 100 cars ..thst should be the priority.

Sep 18, 2019 at 6:39 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

OK I have some catching up to do

Today's Times : Air Pollution linked to depression and suicidal thoughts in children

My premise is all UK media output is PR not news, cos it usually falls apart on close examination.

This is the source
Environmental Health Perspectives@EHPonline·
NOW AVAILABLE: Investigators find evidence of an association between short-term exposure to ambient PM2.5
and increases in kids' psychiatric ED visits.
Read the article ➡️
by @CincyChildrens and @cole_brokamp

History contradicts such studies cos we know in the past pollution was worse yet hospital admissions lower.

Sep 25, 2019 at 5:50 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Friday : study says that of those that die in the first year many live in areas of highest pollution
# Correlation is not causation so speculative title
"Pollution Levels linked to higher risk of baby deaths"
quotes Penny Woods

Sep 27, 2019 at 5:43 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Saturday pg 2 "leading doctors are calling"
lists : Stephen Holgate, J Grigg , Chris Griffiths
and then non doctors Simon Birkett, Geraint Davies MP
"causes 64K early deaths"
..another number they've made up

Same page
Forestry Commission says cool cities with more trees
.. and that will save £22m on aircon

ffs £22m is nothing, they claim its a 13% saving in aircon.

"the Times Clean Air For all campaign"

Sep 28, 2019 at 2:28 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

pg 63 Spiv like article on Green investment ment is branded with the CleanAir For All logo
"Goddin has also invested in Tesla
it's shares rose 48% from 2014 till last year
... however caused shares to fall this year , which could present a buying opportunity"
..yeh why don't you buy some Thomas Cook shares then ?

Sep 28, 2019 at 2:50 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen