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Discussion > Latest Hockey Stick

AK, if it was the work of a sinister foreign force, which of them passed all the urine, that failed the test?

Aug 17, 2016 at 7:21 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

golfCharlie. How revolting of you to suggest the pool was filled by foreign urine. I need mind bleach.

Aug 17, 2016 at 7:41 PM | Unregistered CommenterACK

ACK, they now seem to be trying to blame it on algae, ie not enough bleach. If it is so simple, how did it take so long to figure out?

A traditional pool test kit, involving a test tube and a small tablet could have produced a result in 5 minutes. A few gallons of bleach would have killed the algae in a couple of hours. If my memory works, 1ppm bleach in water kills 99.9% of all germs, and at 10ppm, it is too strong a concentration, and a pool must be closed to swimmers.

Aug 17, 2016 at 9:59 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

What is the more surprising is that the pool must have been surrounded by dozens of coaches from around the world all with close associations with Olympic sized pools back home. Even if they didn't know how to fix the problem, they could instantly be in contact with those that do. If it were algae they would also have filtering problems. The last I read it was a chemical reaction, but between what was not mentioned. Replacing all the water seems a rather drastic and expensive proposition - after all an Olympic pool is the standard measure of a large amount of water.

Aug 18, 2016 at 7:07 AM | Unregistered CommenterACK

ACK, Olympic Size Swimming Pool is an international unit of volume, but the height of a double decker bus takes precedence over the depth of an Olympic Diving Pool.

The filtration plant of a swimming pool just "filters", like filter paper, using meshes and granular material (sand?). The chemical dosing of the pool is a glorified drip/squirt feed of a chlorine donor, or bleach. UV light is good at killing microbial life as it passes a UV light source, but has no residual effect. It does allow for lower ppm's of chlorine to be maintained in a proper swimming pool, than a childrens leisure pool.

If the Green water was caused by algae, this is a very basic error/failure, and a UK public swimming pool would have remained closed to the public. If algae can live in it, bacteria can. Hence my previous comments about a few gallons of supermarket bleach being added. The bleach would kill the algae, the filters would remove the dead algae.

The filtration pumps should circulate the entire volume every hour or two. Overnight, with the lights off, algae would not be able to reproduce quicker than it was being filtered out.

Something is not being reported accurately here!

Non operational pumps and/or filters, and/or dosing? Bleach you can buy from a supermarket, pumps and filters you can't. I would be interested to know whether the plant room contains all the kit that was specified, and whether it actually all worked. It would be normal for different pools within one complex to have separate water, filtration, pumps etc

Replacing all the water in a pool would be drastic action, unless you knew the filtration could not remove something that was in the water. An overdose of chlorine donor could be agitated out of the water with air pumps bubbling the water, using the sort of pumps and hoses used in car maintenance workshops. An overdose of chlorine donor (bleach) would have killed the green algae in minutes, not a week!

Aug 18, 2016 at 12:49 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

a UV light source would be useful. But where are you going to get that in Brazil ?

Aug 18, 2016 at 12:59 PM | Unregistered CommenterEternalOptimist

GolfCharlie. Wish I had had you as an advisor when we had our California swimming pool. All the emphasis was in preventing acidity builup but our pool constantly wanted to turn into an alkaline bath, and we had to repeatedly pour gallons of acid into it. Our pool maintenance supplier couldn't explain our problem. I seem to recall we countered algal buildup with an algicide. All I remember in detail was the enormous cost involved in pool upkeep.

Aug 18, 2016 at 1:14 PM | Unregistered CommenterACK

EternalOptimist UV light units are used by fish keepers, whether in aquaria or ponds to sterilise water. For swimming pools, they allow chlorine levels to be maintained at a lower level, preferred by professional users, who may be in the water for hours a day. This works fine until hoardes of the great unwashed, and "inadequately toilet trained" jump in. The performance of UV tubes does degrade over time, but inadequate UV can not have been an issue in this instance, as there was inadequate chlorine to kill the algae.

ACK, swimming pools do see a rise in pH due to the chlorine donor and "body fat". Chlorine in outdoor pools does not last long due to sunlight. The warmer and sunnier it is, the more chlorine donor is required. The UK pools that I have had some involvement with, have all been in hardwater areas. I know acidity/alkalinity and hard v soft water are not quite the same, but my chemistry runs out. The pH and amount of top-up water can overwhelm the limited abilities of some autodosing kit. This can be lucrative work for pool maintenance operatives. I have no experience of pools with pH problems, and absolutely no formal training about swimming pools.

I have done the emergency hands on crisis management practical a few times. This pool was not able to perform as it was designed.

Aug 18, 2016 at 5:42 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

See 8/18 comments by Ken Fritsch and mpainter on StevieMac's latest Gergis thread. It is clear, from the chicanery, that the researchers are aware of the problems. Has this been communicated to you, Phil, or are you being kept in the dark?

Aug 19, 2016 at 1:31 PM | Unregistered Commenterkim

A monkey on a string, crying 'Hockey Stick' when passersby clink the can.

Aug 19, 2016 at 1:42 PM | Unregistered Commenterkim

Kim,1:31, "chicanery"

If the original Hockey Stick had contained some natural curves and undulations, to match known history, modern use of chicanes to sidestep trouble would not have been required.

Aug 19, 2016 at 2:12 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Heh, from the 'sinuosity'.

Aug 19, 2016 at 2:33 PM | Unregistered Commenterkim

Hey, "Chicanery" - an experimental (rock) group known for its psychotic and surreal output. Fits.....

Aug 19, 2016 at 4:29 PM | Unregistered CommenterACK

Over at Climate Audit, Steve McIntyre has another post about another rock solid bit of climate science.

Re-examining Cook’s Mt Read (Tasmania) Chronology. Aug 16, 2016 – 11:13 PM

"In today’s post, I’m going to re-examine (or more accurately, examine de novo) Ed Cook’s Mt Read (Tasmania) chronology, a chronology recently used in Gergis et al 2016, Esper et al 2016, as well as numerous multiproxy reconstructions over the past 20 years."

Mann is in need of something he can rely on in court. Climate Science has less to offer, the more time and money is spent.

The Mulsanne Straight ness of Climate Science's Holiest of all Hockey Sticks, seems to be littered with evidence of chicanes, speed bumps, diversions, U-Turns, 3 point turns etc. The history of the climate seems more undulating.

Aug 19, 2016 at 9:45 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

golfCharlie. I note that Mann resides within Mulsanne Straight.

Aug 20, 2016 at 9:15 AM | Unregistered CommenterACK

ACK 9:15, he does indeed live in Mulsanne, but his science remains remote from straight.

Aug 21, 2016 at 3:08 AM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

GC. Are you implying his science is bent? I'm 97% sure I can predict your answer.

Aug 21, 2016 at 2:59 PM | Unregistered CommenterACK

Heh, I've long called it Michael 'Piltdown' Mann's Crook't Stick.

Aug 21, 2016 at 7:41 PM | Unregistered Commenterkim

ACK & Kim, I think that Mann may have ironed out too many inconvenient creases in climate history, to present a uniform image, that others can't match without reinventing his ironing technique.

PAGES2K started with good intentions, but the Hockey Team has evolved into the Ironing Team. Different name, same players, same coachs, same objectives, more expensive mess.

Aug 21, 2016 at 11:35 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Our discussion moderator has fallen strangely silent over the past days. Could it be that the "Team" , its southern branch, its support groups and hangers on, are all reeling under the onslaught of Stevey Mac''s latest forensic analyses and are "all of a dither"? Attempts to transplant hockey sticks to the Southern Hemisphere appear doomed to failure yet again. The Olympics should have shown them there are other sports than hockey - hope they didn't watch the pole vault.

Aug 22, 2016 at 7:12 AM | Unregistered CommenterACK

ACK, Mann ran into difficulty importing data that was upside down, into his original Hockey Stick. Antipodean data to support Mann, doesn't seem to stand up right, when viewed from the Northern Hemisphere, and some in the Southern Hemisphere also look down on data that is always pointing up.

Steve McIntyre is correct to turn Climate Science on it's head, give it a shake, and see what rises from the fall out. So far, it is all froth and scum. This is somewhat ironic, as in beer production, the surface froth and scum caused by CO2, was a rich source of what is known as Brewers Yeast, used in traditional breadmaking, cooking and making more beer.

Some Aussies wouldn't give a 4X for a cut in beer production to save the Planet. I am sure many Climate Scientists have had discussions about Carbon footprints over a beer and sandwiches.

Aug 22, 2016 at 4:18 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Could it be that the "Team" , its southern branch, its support groups and hangers on, are all reeling under the onslaught of Stevey Mac''s latest forensic analyses and are "all of a dither"?



Aug 23, 2016 at 1:18 AM | Unregistered CommenterPhil Clarke

Hiya Phil; care to cavil about data torture?

Aug 23, 2016 at 1:26 AM | Unregistered Commenterkim

kim. Don't bother Phil. From the shortness of his reply to me, I surmise his fingers must be sore from all his abacusizing.

Do you know what HTH is, His Thoughtful Highness perhaps? Us old wrinklies didn't go in for all this word contraction nonsence. I'd ask the granddaughter, but she will not arise for another five hours or so. Then will be grumpy and ignore me. Cellar vi.

Aug 23, 2016 at 7:31 AM | Unregistered CommenterACK

For Beth and kim

Perhaps data streams,
newly minted, unconstrained,
resist their torture

Singer beneath bridges

Aug 23, 2016 at 10:15 AM | Unregistered CommenterACK