Bishop Hill SNP accused of fabrication
Feb 2, 2015 Climate: Parliament Energy: gas The news that the Scottish government has kicked the shale gas question into the long grass until well after the general election has elicited a pretty forthright response from one of the experts involved in the official review of unconventional oil and gas north of the border.
SNP ministers are deliberately misleading the Scottish public by pretending their fracking ban is about health and environmental concerns instead of political posturing, an expert they asked to research the controversial practice has said.
In a damning intervention, Professor Paul Younger, Rankine Chair of Engineering at the University of Glasgow, said the Scottish Government’s justifications for unveiling an indefinite moratorium on fracking were “all made up” and “completely feigned”.
Read the whole thing.
Bishop Hill
Prof Younger has apparently posted the following in the comments to the Telegraph article:
Just for the record, re the following reported comment of Stewart Maxwell MSP: "... Mr Maxwell insisted the panel’s report did not provide all the evidence required but could not specify what was missing ... He claimed it did not address the public health impact but the interviewer pointed out this was tackled in the document. Pressed on his error, he then claimed that many experts disagreed with its findings ...".
The final line shows that, not abashed by having failed to read the report himself before the interview (otherwise he would have known its contents), Stewart Maxwell has now made up a story about disagreements from "many experts" disagreeing with our report's findings. Let me categorically state: no such disagreements from any scientist or engineer has been brought to the attention of the former members of the expert panel by the Scottish Government, and none have been directed to me, either publicly or privately. The "many experts" are therefore a complete fabrication on the part of Stewart Maxwell MSP. Shameful.
Reader Comments (47)
It is still possible to become poorer.
A Government misleading the public! Never! Misleading the public would be fraud. Governments never commit fraud or lie to the public in order to gain or retain power. Politicians are as pure as the driven snow.
"SNP ministers are deliberately misleading the Scottish public". To deliberately mislead the public is fraud, according to The Fraud Act 2006. Somebody in Scotland should report the SNP Ministers involved to the Serious Fraud Office (www.sfo.gov.uk)
More to the point - why don't we get to see / hear this sort of thing on the BBC / through the PA news feeds?
The answer is obvious - but that doesn't make the question less worth repeating.
I see the Tartan Trolls are out in force on the Telegraph report.
Amazing just how thick some people can be.
Watch Scottish Sunday Politics for this. Particularly strong interviewing technique deployed by the presenter Gordon Brewer.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b050b2kg/sunday-politics-scotland-01022015
Start at 30 minutes in.
Dellingpole is right they should be called what they are "lying scum" The scum crowd resort to name calling on every occasion that the media offer. Time to ratch it up until they discuss science.
A comment From Professor Younger has appeared in the DT's coverage:
If politicians adopt the green agenda; obviously for their own political ends; of course they will use the greenie propaganda to make their case. And this includes
misquoting and generally distorting scientific work to suit their own agenda. I understand the Scot's government is unflinchingly supporting the wind generation industry. A new and possibly plentiful supply of fuel, from fracking, would cast doubt on the need for this blot on the landscape.
It's uplifting to finally see the SNP in a fair fight with a well paid opposition who (unlike us) don't just have to accept their crap and can wipe them round the floor in the media and show up their idiotic pronouncements for the bigoted narrow minded group think they are.
I just wish we'd had that kind of big money to take them on with their wind and global warming non-science because I've no doubt with just a fraction of the frackers money, we'd have thrashed the SNP.
I'm starting to be quite concerned about the direction Scotland is taking.
The lunatics seem to genuinely be taking over. The issues of energy have been bad enough to witness, with so many holding unshakeable beliefs that wind can provide for everything and fracking is evil. Anyone who disagrees, for whatever reason, is written off as a some kind of shill.
Meanwhile, some kind of toxic cultural transformation appears to be taking place. First an Israeli theatre troupe was bullied out of Edinburgh, then Glasgow council decides it would be a good idea to fly the Palestinian flag "in solidarity", subsequently putting off some high rolling American business from holding an expensive event in the city. Concerned about all this, as I often go to Edinburgh to enjoy the Fringe for a week or two when I can afford the holiday, I started making some inquiries. I was told by one of the Fringe organisers that it wasn't just "Israelis" but UKIP members were not welcome at the Fringe either.
What on earth is going on up there?
The dichotomy for the SNP is that, in wanting to 'follow the science' when it comes to 'unconventional gas and oil', they don't seem bothered by 'the science' when it comes to wind: scientists will tell you that there is not enough sustainable energy in the wind to make it a viable source of power: it always has to be backed up with an energy source that is reliable.
'I was told by one of the Fringe organisers that it wasn't just "Israelis" but UKIP members were not welcome at the Fringe either.'
I get a lot of comments up here in Scotland by Tartan Trolls that UKIP are not wanted as they are anti foreigners, which seems very hypocritical from people who are anti-english. I believe its just an excuse and UKIP are just seen as being as an English party and so must be hated.
Getting more and more like a dictatorship up here and doubt I will be here much longer.
The irony being of course that when the SNP are pressed to how all their dreams can be paid for , its 'their oil' which they turn to, and certainly not wind.
In reality good luck we finding anyone that 'only' users renewable resources, most use various scams like off-setts to cover for the fact that the intermittent nature of renewable seems it simply cannot be relied on to supply power when needed., so that also have the ability and willingness to take power from other sources.
I think it would be in everyone's interest if Scotland and the UK had a trial separation.
While reading Professor Younger's comments I was struck by the the thought, what if someone wanted to drill a conventional gas well? Would that now be stopped?
> What on earth is going on up there?
I don't know, it's like a zombie invasion where when you're bitten you'll believe any old bullshit the SNP tell you.
Any anyone pointing out they're talking rubbish is accused of being 'negative'.
I'm hoping a reasonable amount of people will see through them before the elections this year.
From the linked article: "Mr Maxwell said: “I don’t believe that the people of Scotland want us to just go ahead without
listening to what they have to say.”"
Unless, of course, the matter begin decided is wind farm: in that case, the people can go to blazes, their views will be ignored, their objections over-ruled, and the decisions of their democratic representatives "called in" for correction and approval over their heads.
From the linked article: "Mr Maxwell said: “I don’t believe that the people of Scotland want us to just go ahead without
listening to what they have to say.”"
Unless, of course, the matter begin decided is wind farm: in that case, the people can go to blazes, their views will be ignored, their objections over-ruled, and the decisions of their democratic representatives "called in" for correction and approval over their heads.
Harry,
Yes, it would be stopped. Because a) the public doesn't have a clue so is being misled and b) they'd have to prove a negative - that they're NOT going to frack and c) because fossil fuels = evil.
The simple question to ask anyone who claims to be only opposed to a specific technique like fracking is to ask them to point to an oil or gas well they would NOT be opposed to.
Beware the invasion of the Hysterical Climate Zombies once you're bitten you'll believe any old bullshit
....good meme @Nial
..."Help, is there anyone that can think for themselves ? "
It's Jim Murphy's fault. I can understand the SNP panicking in reaction to Murphy's pre-election populism. As BH says, it's all about kicking this issue beyond the general election, after which we hope sanity will be restored. If SNP lose seats because of irrational, baseless fears stoked by the abjectly irresponsible Labour party then it'll be like the referendum vote all over again. Everyone is naturally scared of the unknown and in equal parts unwilling to educate themselves so it's not a difficult job to scare them into voting for something materially worse than what they have now.
On the Sunday Politics I thought that it was also encouraging that the Tory spokesperson replied to the nonsense spouted by the Green spokesman about fracking by saying that people were far more concerned about their heating bills than environmental concerns. Of course the Green replied with the usual canard that everyone says fuel prices won't fall due to fracking which was nicely cut off by the interviewer reminding him that it had just happened thanks just to US shale.
Please other journalists take note.....peak oil and oil price pessimism were wrong, the 70's new ice age, 80's acid rain & 90's deforestation scares were all wrong, etc, etc..... Try now to rebut irrational fears with established facts and display the scepticism that all journalists should have hard-wired into them!
James Verdon exacts his revenge on Mike Hill (who ambushed one of his radio appearances with BBC connivance) here, debunking much of the nonsense on "health issues".
Of course, the SNP won't even read Public Health England's study on the topic.
Harry Passfield:
The though had already occurred to me. Is Wytch Farm now going to be shut down if they dare to frack any of their wells as part of the normal well completion process, or to re-stimulate production? It's in an AONB, after all - or perhaps since the reservoirs are mostly under the English Channel they'll be exempt, since the frac operation won't be under the National Park or AONB? If I had a PEDL licence covering National Park or AONB land, I'd be looking for compensation from the DECC for selling it to me under a false prospectus. At the weekend, I took a country walk where the view included woodland that shrouds a gas well (I've also taken a walk past the actual site, which just has the Christmas tree well completion and a couple of Portakabins) - also in an AONB. Almost no-one knows it's there.
The SNP and others, may be putting their faith in renewable energy generated from gas, by modified composting toilets.
Based on the observation that haggis is frequently served, but rarely eaten, especially in hotels and reataurants catering for weathy tourists from overseas, the idea is to put uneaten haggis sraight into a composting toilet, and cut out the middleman (or tourist in this instance.
Experts have praised the initial results, particularly as it gives them justification for not consuming every last crumb and gristle, served by their host, who is paying their fees.
Has any politician (in recent times) ever been prosecuted or punished for fraud in connection with a statement on a public issue? I don't think it's happened west of the pond.
Quite a few anti-tartan trolls here to balance things. Still apparently unable to understand why Scots reject the thatcherism and blairite neo-thatcherism that caused the energy supply problem in the first place plus mass de-industrialisation in favour of City financiers who spread toxic debt around like (equally worthless) confetti but who then pleaded for taxpayer bailouts after years of extolling the virtues of the free market that would have left them bankrupt.
Well FYI, it's nothing to do with being anti-English; it's about basic distrust of the so-called free market and the basic democracy that denies them the right (by 10 votes to 1) to be more like Scandinavia and less like the USA.
JamesG of course you are quite correct. Political dogma, dressed up as science, is going to cause the lights to go out in Scotland, unless a Goldilocks wind is blowing (not to weak, not to strong)
Hopefully, if the Scots do manage to run Scotland, they will realise the true potential of the energy beneath their feet.
It's the faeries. They've been neglected.
==========
What a pity the Scots didn't vote for independence.
Then we wouldn't have the criminally insane SNP at Westminster.
> Quite a few anti-tartan trolls here to balance things.
Sorry JamesG you're not gettign away with that.
Pointing out the lunacy of the SNP policies is not _anti-tartan_.
> Well FYI, it's nothing to do with being anti-English; it's about basic distrust of
> the so-called free market and the basic democracy that denies them the right
> (by 10 votes to 1) to be more like Scandinavia and less like the USA.
Only ~37% of Scots voted to be 'more like Scandanavia' (in their imaginations), so that's a ratio of 40:1
Kim, neglected faeries, get particularly fiery, and lack of self determination, can lead to self detonation.
The comments section in the DT on this piece has been thread-bombed by some copy 'n' paste illiterate American who has posted in excess of 50 points supporting his stand against fracking.
Harry Passfield, does he say how he will offset his carbon footprint with all the electricity required on both sides of the Atlantic, to post his comments? At least on his side, it may have been generated by shale gas
As a Kiwi of half=Scots and half English descent, I discovered while touring the UK over a period of about a decade, that each separate part of the UK dislike other parts in quite a malign fashion and that political arguments appear to be based on ancient tribal feuds which will never be resolved because they have no basis in fact or reason. Quite disappointing to have one's romantic notions of the past destroyed, but at least I understand now why my forebears happily departed from the UK during the 19th century. The very real risk of my my antecedents suffering starvation was only one factor providing the push for emigration from the UK.
If you want to be like Scandinavia, it helps to start out with a country full of Scandinavians. Just sayin'.
Alexander K, it's small minded idiots that actually dislike the other constituent elements.
Most people with half a brain who have travelled or worked in the other countries welcome the diversity/ friendly rivalry. International rugby crowds are a good example of this.
Nial (born in Belfast, Geordie Granny, Scottish wife and daughters).
In the run up to the referendum there was a concerted effort in the media to portray the independence debate in Scotland as a matter of hatred and violence. I do wonder who was behind this, and what the motive was.
This MEP needs deselected & have to work for a living ASAP, along with the majority of Politions in the UK.
I have linked before to the shale industry in my old home area (west lothian).but will repeat in the hope someone will enlighten these type of incompent fools who have no idea & offer nothing to the future of Scotland (Windbag is putting it politely) -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumpherston
http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/groups/shale-pits
http://www.scottishshale.co.uk/GazWorks/PumpherstonOilWorks.html
ps- most of my family/relatives still live in the area & could do with boost to the economy in the area (and free gas out the taps would be a godsend, if only :-)
If you want to be like Scandinavia, it helps to start out with a country full of Scandinavians. Just sayin'.
Feb 2, 2015 at 8:29 PM | Bloke in Central Illinois
I would suggest moving fast as the prospect of finding a country predominantly populated by Scandinavians in the not so distant future may very well be a pipe dream.
Nial
"Pointing out the lunacy of the SNP policies is not anti-tartan".
Reread some of the comments above and find what I was really referring to. But btw do you think that the Labour party had better policies - or the Tories, who caused the UK energy shortage by halting the nuclear power programme? It's a pretty poor choice both in the UK or Scotland for someone who hopes to see common sense break out. At least the SNP still supports North Sea Oil while Osborne taxes it to a ridiculous extent and Labour would likely ban it. I believe they will also support unconventional oil/gas. Labour, their main rivals certainly won't! Hence ejecting Labour is the top political priority!
And btw2, the lights will go out in England much sooner than Scotland. Salmond reasonably said that they have a lot of spare capacity at the moment so they have time to try renewables - in a country where it may be viable. With North Sea oil running out and nuclear not favoured by investors, that's pragmatism!
"Only ~37% of Scots voted to be 'more like Scandinavia' (in their imaginations), so that's a ratio of 40:1"
Ignoring your innumeracy, 45% of those who didn't abstain voted for it including several hundred thousand English residents who presumably all voted no. It would have been nice to see a poll untainted though by the false scares. At the moment we don't know who wants devo-max and who want full independence. One thing is sure though SNP support has rocketed since, which is highly significant. That Scottish political opinion is very different from English is undeniable! The Scandinavia versus US analogy is just my nicer way to describe it to rabid right-wingers who decry all socialist thought on principle - even the demonstrably good parts.
Bloke in Illinois
"If you want to be like Scandinavia, it helps to start out with a country full of Scandinavians. Just sayin'.
I fully support your right to say irrelevant nonsense! Comedy is an outlet in these troubled times.
"But btw do you think that the Labour party had better policies - or the Tories, who caused the UK energy shortage by halting the nuclear power programme?"
Other parties policies have no bearing on the fact the SNP lied blatently about their reasons for stopping shale.
" The "many experts" are therefore a complete fabrication on the part of Stewart Maxwell MSP."
It seems to come very easily to all of them.
They are also anti-nuclear, so although the (evil) Tories halted nuclear they have belatedly started it again. How many new nuclear power stations will the SNP allow in Scotland?
"At least the SNP still supports North Sea Oil"
Evidence? Talking about it isn't support.
Or are they going to target some of last years £440 million _underspend_ to Aberdeen?
"Salmond reasonably said that they have a lot of spare capacity at the moment so they have time to try renewables"
Salmond said it so it must be true?
Except they've forced the closure of Cockenzie so there is little spare capacity. If _one_ power station goes down we're importing from England. If Longannet is closed we'll be heavily dependent on the rest of the UK.
"Ignoring your innumeracy"
65/1.6 = ~40 ?
> It would have been nice to see a poll untainted though by the false scares.
It would have been nice to see a poll where the SNP weren't lying through their teeth.
An example "The First Minister told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show at the weekend that he had spoken to the Spanish, French, Italians and Belgians about his assertion that a separate Scotland would start life in the EU."But Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo, the Spanish Foreign Minister, yesterday rejected Mr Salmond’s version of events, telling the Telegraph that he had not even spoken to the SNP leader in two years."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11100406/Alex-Salmond-accused-of-lying-over-EU-talks.html
> Comedy is an outlet in these troubled times.
Keep trying.
Politics without politicking? dream on. There were scare stories on both sides. The public mostly ignored them, and voted the way they always said they were going to vote despite the ever-rolling Neverendum SNP bandwagon.
A number of local SNP supporters in Aberdeen were definitely anti-shale, going so far as to accuse Ian Wood of being against separation because he wanted a "fracking licence", whatever that is. Nobody in the SNP stood up to correct them or say they were for shale and CSG, presumably because they wanted the Green vote, which is about as anti-Scotland as could be: no oil, no gas, no hydro, no nuclear.
The Professor is connected to the fracking industry.
How?
"The Professor is connected to the WWF"
"The Professor is connected to Greenpeace"
"The Professor is connected to the Labour Party"
.. Would some one post those on an article at a Climate alarmiat website and just walk away .... as if that finishes their entire argument ?
. . ..It would sound like childish mudslinging ..like saying "your mum smells"
- You have to go thru 2 more complex stages :
1. Substantiate your claim
2. Then explain the weaknesses of the prof's actual arguments.
Nial
Your only accusation of Salmond lying is based on the odd notion that he would be talking to the self-same heads of governments who are also desperate to avoid separatism in their own states and to back that up you quote a Tory rag as if it was gospel? Just on the basis of logic I'd imagine he talked mainly to legal people and the heads of other separatist parties to thrash out a common strategy, ie those who had something useful to say. I've no idea what 65/1.4 is meant to mean and I don't care. Stick to 45% of Scots! The 10/1 ratio I mentioned was the ratio of Scots MP's versus rUK MP's in the commons.
Kellydown
Of course the ignorant are anti-shale but at least the academics are mostly on the side of common sense on this issue so a turnaround after the election is possible. As I said, this only have happened because of a hasty reaction to Jim Murphy's politicking that the Scotsman rightly pilloried. SNP likely did not want the election to be about fracking or even any other green issues. As to what they really think - I expect many listened to the experts and don't disagree with their conclusions and I also am not surprised that some are ignorant. The way ahead is to focus on rising fuel poverty as even by the SNP wildest dreams don't have residential gas use for heating reducing any time soon. More people worry about the immediate cost of heating their house than by some likely beneficial heating of Scotland as a whole from CO2.
Its bad idea of government to accused of fabrication.