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« The hearing | Main | Travelling »
Monday
Jan142013

The trip

At least one commenter has correctly surmised that the purpose of my trip south has been to watch David Holland questioning Sir Muir Russell and Edward Acton about the details of the Climategate inquiries at the Information Tribunal. That's tomorrow's excitement. I've also had some discussions today which may turn out to be just as important in the long run.

Interesting times.

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Reader Comments (53)

Ahh, I was hoping it might have to do with that, but I was keeping my mouth shut.

Let's all cheer when Acton and Muir Russell come clean.... Oops, not expecting that, but let's hope something good comes out of their farce.

Btw, new paper suggesting that climate sensitivity may be low not high:

http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2013/01/new-paper-confirms-findings-of-lindzen.html?m=1

(h/t Tom Nelson)

Jan 14, 2013 at 11:02 PM | Registered CommenterSkiphil

Do us a Josh type pictorial transcript summary, please!!

Jan 14, 2013 at 11:08 PM | Registered CommenterPharos

skiphil...that paper is pre-debunked already! if it says Lindzen, the faithful chuckle and ignore. you can see it at the AGU speech given by Pierrehumbert....he was inspired to become a climate non-scientist by reading a paper by Lindzen.

Jan 15, 2013 at 12:12 AM | Unregistered Commenterdiogenes

Skiphil: Thanks for the pointer.

Diogenes: I don't understand. Do you have a link to a specific debunking?

Bish: Just read CA and was wondering if I should attend. May see you and David there.

Jan 15, 2013 at 12:26 AM | Registered CommenterRichard Drake

diogenes~ Did your lantern blow out?

Jan 15, 2013 at 12:46 AM | Unregistered CommenterOtter

You couldn't nip on down to Southwark Crown court and give us an update on stig who let 'her indoors' do the driving - aka agent "yellow topgear" - go on - you know you want to Bish.

Jan 15, 2013 at 12:58 AM | Unregistered CommenterAthelstan.

Richard Drake: please do attend the Holland hearing. Your impressions/commentary would be appreciated.

Your Grace: like the creators of an old radio show, you know how to create an aura of suspense! I will tune in for the next episode.

As for "interesting times," beware the Chinese curse.

Jan 15, 2013 at 2:10 AM | Unregistered Commentertheduke

Watch? Are you not allowed to assist David as a "McKenzie Friend" or whatever?
http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Guidance/pfd_guidance_mckenzie_friends_oct_2008.pdf

Jan 15, 2013 at 4:34 AM | Unregistered CommenterMooloo

diogenes's point was that it was authored by Lindzen. Therefor "debunked" aka discredited before they read it.

Jan 15, 2013 at 5:08 AM | Unregistered CommenterGreg Cavanagh

Good luck to David Holland.

I hope he has had some practice goes at questioning evasive types. Having seen Team UEA in action in the past, IMO careful, specific questions will need reinforcing immediately the replies wander off track. This will need to be applied consistently and, if Tony Newbery's experience is anything to go by, without any support from the Tribunal.

I'd suggest having a tiered approach to objectives - ie best outcome in terms of points established/won, acceptable outcome, and absolute minimum to establish. Have questions thought through in a way that supports those outcomes.

Take advantage that any skilled liar will be very reluctant to have a lie on the record against them - so make explicit any implicit lies and ask them to confirm them.

Be prepared to have the Tribunal work against you and have a plan in place to handle/challenge their direction. Beware of Muir Russell - IMO a complete snake.

Best wishes for a worthwhile endeavour.

Jan 15, 2013 at 6:54 AM | Unregistered Commenternot banned yet

Oi! I object to that.

Snakism is a scourge on our times.

We snakes prefer you employ wormism, and much more applicable in this instance...

Jan 15, 2013 at 7:28 AM | Unregistered CommenterMonty the Python

Greg: the paper is by P. Bjornbom.

Jan 15, 2013 at 8:08 AM | Registered CommenterRichard Drake

Sorry to say Bish. Like all politics in this once great country of ours it'll be a complete waste of time. Spend a load of tax payers money then just get on with 'I'm-all-right-jack' politics.

Jan 15, 2013 at 8:34 AM | Unregistered CommenterShevva

Bish, If David Holland doesn't have a 'mckenzie friend' why not volunteer your services

Jan 15, 2013 at 8:54 AM | Unregistered CommenterAnoneumouse

I would suggest an eel.

Jan 15, 2013 at 9:08 AM | Registered CommenterPhillip Bratby

Anybody know the make up of the Tribunal?

http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/tribunals/information-rights/who-are-the-tribunaljudges-may-2011.pdf

Jan 15, 2013 at 9:16 AM | Registered CommenterGreen Sand

Another “forecast” from our beloved weather forecasters. Notice how they have found out it’s usually colder in the North.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/uk/wm/wm_forecast_weather_noscript.html

UK Outlook for Tuesday 29 Jan 2013 to Tuesday 12 Feb 2013:
Colder than average conditions are favoured across many parts of the UK, especially in the north and east. Whilst there is no strong signal for rainfall patterns through this period, drier than average conditions are more likely in the north, whereas the south may have near or even slightly above average rainfall. The frequency of snow events through this period may be more than experienced so far this winter.
Updated: 1139 on Mon 14 Jan 2013

Jan 15, 2013 at 9:22 AM | Unregistered CommenterAdrian Kerton

The frequency of snow events through this period may be more than experienced so far this winter
We believe there as a better than even chance that Monday follows Sunday! Looking at this I finally understand what the MO computer does. It churns out this rubbish; surely no human brain has been involved in this!

Jan 15, 2013 at 10:33 AM | Registered CommenterMike Jackson

The frequency of snow events through this period may be more.....on the other hand it may be less, and actually we haven't a clue, so we're covered if we say "may".

Jan 15, 2013 at 10:36 AM | Unregistered CommenterMessenger

@Phillip Bratby...I would suggest an eel.

Surely you are not hinting that some people are slippery and slimy?

Jan 15, 2013 at 10:37 AM | Registered Commenterpeterwalsh

Commenters such as 'diogenes' are so transparent it's beyond parody. As Richard Drake points out, the research wasn't carried out by Lindzen but by P. Björnbom KTH Royal Institute of Technology, Sweden.

If 'diogenes' wishes to refute the findings, which I'm sure he will, oh look, there's an Interactive Discussion Forum link where you can go and discuss scientific theories with the author. Do let us know how you get on.

http://www.earth-syst-dynam-discuss.net/4/25/2013/esdd-4-25-2013-discussion.html

Earth System Dynamics -An Interactive Open Access Journal of the European Geosciences Union

http://www.earth-syst-dynam-discuss.net/4/25/2013/esdd-4-25-2013.html

Jan 15, 2013 at 11:30 AM | Registered CommenterGrumpyDenier

Jan 15, 2013 at 6:54 AM | not banned yet


"Beware of Muir Russell - IMO a complete snake."

How dare you nby, Sir Muir Russell is one of our finest public servants with outstanding achievements behind him. You may not be aware that this grandee of bureaucrats managed to get an extra £360M of costs into a project originally budgeted at £40M, I shouldn't wonder he's in line for a peerage.

Jan 15, 2013 at 11:32 AM | Unregistered Commentergeronimo

Jan 15, 2013 at 11:30 AM | coldoldman

Hi Coldy, I think you'll find that diogenes wasn't refuting the paper but pointing out that it will be refuted by the usual crowd. He was being ironic.

Jan 15, 2013 at 11:40 AM | Unregistered Commentergeronimo

"The frequency of snow events through this period may be more than experienced so far this winter"

= more snow possible. But why use 3 words when 17 will do..?

Jan 15, 2013 at 1:03 PM | Registered Commenterjamesp

Hi Coldy, I think you'll find that diogenes wasn't refuting the paper but pointing out that it will be refuted by the usual crowd. He was being ironic.
Trouble is, geronimo, that more and more people on "our" side of the fence are losing their sense of humour. Dangerous thing, irony, when you are dealing with the humourless.

Jan 15, 2013 at 1:28 PM | Registered CommenterMike Jackson

Before long Kids will not know what irony is.

Jan 15, 2013 at 1:37 PM | Unregistered CommenterRetired Dave

@Mike Jackson,
"I finally understand what the MO computer does. It churns out this rubbish; surely no human brain has been involved in this!"

Indeed; I was reminded of Orwell's versificator:

"The tune had been haunting London for weeks past. It was one of countless similar songs published for the benefit of the proles by a sub-section of the Music Department. The words of these songs were composed without any human intervention whatever on an instrument known as a versificator. But the woman sang so tunefully as to turn the dreadful rubbish into an almost pleasant sound."

Jan 15, 2013 at 1:53 PM | Unregistered CommenterNeil McEvoy

peterwalsh

Would I be so bold as to accuse a knight of the realm as being slippery and slimy? Moi!

Jan 15, 2013 at 1:57 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhillip Bratby

Well if it doesn't go away the Viner Way, at least you can ban it...

Telegraph: Police threaten to arrest people throwing snowballs

Jan 15, 2013 at 2:01 PM | Unregistered CommenterJiminy Cricket

Phillip

How about a Weasel?

Anyway, wasn't one J.Savile a KBE? It's not the appellation it was...

Jan 15, 2013 at 2:08 PM | Registered Commenterjamesp

Phillip @ Jan 15, 2013 at 1:57 PM

That is unanswerable!

Jan 15, 2013 at 2:14 PM | Registered Commenterpeterwalsh

Hi Coldy, I think you'll find that diogenes wasn't refuting the paper but pointing out that it will be refuted by the usual crowd. He was being ironic.
Jan 15, 2013 at 11:40 AM | geronimo

In that case I apologise.

Trouble is, geronimo, that more and more people on "our" side of the fence are losing their sense of humour. Dangerous thing, irony, when you are dealing with the humourless.

Jan 15, 2013 at 1:28 PM | Mike Jackson

Exactly.

Jan 15, 2013 at 2:54 PM | Registered CommenterGrumpyDenier

It's a travesty we can't find the missing sense of humour

Jan 15, 2013 at 3:46 PM | Unregistered CommenterAngusPangus

AngusPangus

We all wish David well, but I hope he opened all the windows and turned the heating off
before he appeared.

There we are - humour and irony returns !

Jan 15, 2013 at 4:03 PM | Unregistered Commenterjazznick

Richard Drake:

try this link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RICBu_P8JWI

Jan 15, 2013 at 5:00 PM | Unregistered Commenterdiogenes

if you don't want to watch the whole video, start at 35.49...and listen to the ritual laughter when Pierrehumbert attacks Lindzen

Jan 15, 2013 at 5:07 PM | Unregistered Commenterdiogenes

Will do, thanks, diogenes. Just come out of David Holland's hearing and in a cybercafe, recharging my MacBook!

David did especially well in questioning Muir Russell this afternoon I thought. As Andrew's just said, we may not win this one but it was a real education to witness (and David Henderson was sitting between us, a giant beside one pygmy at least!)

The tribunal of three (am I repeating myself?) the other end of the room seemed on the ball and very fair, based on all their interventions. But there was something said by the presiding judge shortly after I arrived about not reporting details. I think that was just during the session but I want to check - don't want to end up in Tower just yet :)

Jan 15, 2013 at 5:16 PM | Registered CommenterRichard Drake

It seems that some of our regular bloggers are in need of some light relief.
To that end I have penned a parody on a widely loved Irish Ballad called 'Spancil Hill'
It is an ode to a small village in Co Clare, penned a couple of hundred years ago by an emigrant to California called Michael Cosidine. The best rendition is by the Dubliners. Any one who is musical can find the tune on the net by searching for 'The Dubliners'.

BISHOP HILL

Last nigh as I lay dreaming of warmer days gone by,
Me mind being bent on rambeling to Hadley I did fly;
A computer there to programme it showed no warming still,
I went to Andrew Montford and his blog at Bishop Hill.

Delighted by the novelty of playing computer games,
I put some garbage in one end it came out as horses hames;
I need some extra terrabites the sheepil will foot the bill,
For my brand new hindcasts I'll show them to Bishop Hill.

It being late on Christmas Eve I must hide this new decline,
In case some sceptics see the trend else my grant is on the line:
This model needs more CO2 there's too much chlorophyll,
Let's hype global warming and confuse old Bishop Hill.

I next flew o're the water to the land of the Canuk,
To see my lovely Donna she's the delinquint I mistook;
I could not deny her 'saying Donna I love you still',
She's the climate audits daughter and the pride of Bishop Hill.

I next went down to Dixie 'cross the Masonic Dixon line,
My mann was on the icerink but his game was in decline;
Hanson's team of all stars had eaten too much swill,
They looked unfit for purpose unlike the champs at Bishop Hill.

I dreamt I steeped down under to what was the lucky land,
Until Gilliards nihilists ruled free speech was banned;
I met with Joanne Nova with Bolt she has the skill,
To lead Aus out of darkness with their links to Bishop Hill.

I then woke up in Blighty and found my nightmares true,
The windmills not a mirage of the fevered CRU;
Watts Up with Mrs Slingo she has made the climate chill,
Is she scared of climate realists who inhabit Bishop Hill?

Jan 15, 2013 at 5:18 PM | Unregistered Commenterpatthepoet

looking forward to details. I don't understand why members of the audience would be restricted from comment. This surely isnt Star Chamber stuff.

Jan 15, 2013 at 5:39 PM | Unregistered CommenterSteve McIntyre

So did David ask why Muir Russell did not publish his submission? (The website still just says ''on legal advice'). And if so how did MR avoid answering it?

Jan 15, 2013 at 5:50 PM | Registered CommenterPaul Matthews

diogenes, thanks.

That accordion-playing clown is presenting "Tyndall Lecture: GC43I. Successful Predictions".

Tyndall... Isn't that Mike Hulme's backyard?

Jan 15, 2013 at 5:53 PM | Unregistered CommentersHx

@Richard Drake, re reporting details: if it was a "public appointment" as UEA asserts, why should the details remain private? Also, it's a public hearing is it not?

Jan 15, 2013 at 5:59 PM | Unregistered Commentertheduke

theduke: if it was a "public appointment" as UEA asserts, why should the details remain private?

Not to turn it into a "public disappointment"?

Jan 15, 2013 at 6:20 PM | Unregistered CommentersHx

I guess if details arent allowed to be printed...just yet...then all we will have to do is wait until the judgement of the tribunal is given. Then we should be allowed to read all the details that were ignored eh?

Mailman

Jan 15, 2013 at 6:20 PM | Unregistered Commentermailman

patthepoet
Thanks, Pat, cheered my evening!

Hope we don't have to wait too long to hear from the Bishop about the day's events.

Jan 15, 2013 at 6:33 PM | Unregistered CommenterMessenger

re the Bjornbom paper, as predicted by me:

Comment 76
[Response: Another paper confusing short term variations with long-term shifts. - gavin]

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2013/01/on-sensitivity-part-i/comment-page-2/#comments

Jan 15, 2013 at 6:34 PM | Unregistered Commenterdiogenes

Irony,not the same as sarcasm really.
How about, /Fe as an irony tag?
(i`ll get my coat).

Jan 15, 2013 at 6:42 PM | Unregistered Commenterbanjo

Nice banjo //Fe

//Fe = not ironic

Jan 15, 2013 at 7:40 PM | Registered Commenterjferguson

banjo -
Wouldn't it be /Fey for irony?

Jan 15, 2013 at 8:15 PM | Registered CommenterHaroldW

banjo:

Love the irony tag. I will now proceed to appropriate it as my own. One advantage of getting older is it becomes more difficult to remember the correct attribution - plagiarism becomes simple memory loss.

Your sense of humor tracks mine... according to my friends and family, that is not a complement ;)

Jan 15, 2013 at 9:00 PM | Unregistered CommenterDavid Jay

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