Thursday
Sep012011
by 
Bishop Hill
Bishop Hill Breaking the ice
Sep 1, 2011 Climate: Surface Autonomous Mind has an amusing story about diplomacy and sea ice. It appears that the Swedes are not going to allow the US National Science Foundation to lease their biggest and best ice-breaker for use in the Antarctic. Stockholm reckons they are going to need all the ice-breaking capacity they can lay their hands on in the Arctic.
Which is odd, because I thought the Arctic ice was about to disappear.
Reader Comments (23)
Last winter:-
"Nuclear icebreaker Vaygach sailing from Murmansk along the Norwegian coast to free ships caught in Baltic ice"
http://bellona.org/articles/articles_2011/vaygach_norway
I've written a computer model that conclusively proves there will be no sunrise tomorrow. But I suspect reality has other plans.
We are reaping the whirlwind of forty years of the post-modernist view that reality is whatever we say it is.
Sorry, but reality just 'is'.
This am the Daily Telegraph environment correspondent (Louise Gray) reports that the Met Office is forecasting a cold start to the autumn. A Mr Jonathan Powell, of Positive Weather Solutions, (I am curious how he manages to do that), is quoted as saying "...we do expect frosts to set in early this year, with temperatures dipping sharply later in November and leading into a cold winter."
Are we in danger of getting a new concensus about a new ice age to replace global warming?
This am the Daily Telegraph environment correspondent (Louise Gray) reports that the Met Office is forecasting a cold start to the autumn. A Mr Jonathan Powell, of Positive Weather Solutions, (I am curious how he manages to do that), is quoted as saying "...we do expect frosts to set in early this year, with temperatures dipping sharply later in November and leading into a cold winter."
Are we in danger of getting a new concensus about a new ice age to replace global warming?
Sweden isn't concerned with Arctic sea ice breaking, the Baltic basin, is their major concern, the thinking being, that after last year's horrendous problems, they needed their baby back at home - good thinking imho.
I seem to recall the Beeb making much of some rowers making it to the magnetic N.pole recently. They said lots about melting ice, but surprisingly little about the pole's own eastward excursion...
According to the IPCC's draft report on the subject
The Arctic will be ice free by... , ( note to author add random date and keep pushing it back when it fells to happen )
Autonomous Mind points out that Sweden's Ministry for Foreign Affairs provided a copy of its letter to the US (concerning the icebreaker) within a day of a request for same. No FoI paperwork, no extra time for "balancing the public interest", just -- transparency. How refreshing!
Being a swede interested in these questions i quite remember how the old boss of the ministry with responsibility had to fight "tooth and nail" (or whatever it is you say across the channel) to keep an extra icebreaker when the last government wanted to rationalize them away as there "would be no need for them in the future". Last laugh, and all that... Anyhow it's not for the arctic but the baltic basin as Athelstan correctly stated above, there's been normous trouble the last two winters shipping products from the north and had the extra ice-breaker not been in operation it would have been disastrous for many a swedish companies.
Actually the icebreaker isn't needed in the Arctic - it is needed in the Baltic. Oden was built to be used in the Baltic in winter and as a research ship in the Arctic in the summer, but then Sjöfartsverket (Swedish Maritime Authority) got a brainstorm and decided that they were going to make big dollars by renting Oden to the americans for use in the Antarctic during the southern summer (which is - unfortunately - the northern winter). However after two winters with insufficient icebreaking capacity and what with the big Finland ferries with thousands of passengers getting stuck in the ice and the mining and forestry industries raising hell because they can't export their products Sjöfartsverket doesn't dare trying it a third time.
The general ignorance about the Northern polar region is startling; this ignorance allows the BBC to ignore the area where most of the sea ice is and to ignore the travails of shipping there for the last two winters. It has also enabled the rowers to row to where the Magnetic North Pole was a few years ago, which is nowhere near where it is currently - another example of Warmists misdirecting the public and of the requirement to watch very carefully to see which cup the pea is actually under.
"Are we in danger of getting a new concensus about a new ice age to replace global warming?"
Sep 1, 2011 at 10:21 AM | oldtimer
*sighs*
Climate. Weather. Different things. You may have heard these words before. If so, it's because they're correct.
Incidentally, PWS - are you kidding? You might wish to amuse yourself by finding out about them a little bit, then re-assess how credible you think they are.
Recite the mantra
We don't need it,
It needs US
oldtimer: "Are we in danger of getting a new concensus about a new ice age to replace global warming?"
Could we get so lucky, oldtimer...I figure the climate of an ice age would be rather more uncomfortable than the present climate, but the prospect of it may clear the air(heads).
Dear Peter,
Mantras are also a response.
Roger,
I agree.
Tks for watching, now hopefully it will know that there won't be any more. I just wanted to try and get the message across.
Over and out.
"Climate. Weather. Different things." Only in the sense that climate is just the average of a lot of weathers.
I can't remember where I read about having to prepare for"extreme weather events" recently, as CAGW now seems to be called, and perhaps the Met Office is jumping on that bandwagon and issuing a scare warning so that in the future they can point the finger at extreme weather all due to rising CO2 and a rising global temperature. Either that or don't believe their forecast - remember the BBQ summer fiasco? I seem to recall they were predicting a hot summer this year even after they had abandoned long range forecasts, and how right were they about that? I have refused to not wear sandals as it is supposed to be summer, but my feet were so cold a couple of nights ago that I went to bed with a hot water bottle. Quote from son, " Mum! It's August and you're going to bed with a hot water bottle!!???"
Re my tongue in cheek reference to a new ice age vs global warming, I actually am old enough to remember when this idea was last taken seriously by HMG. It would not surprise me in the least if this notion is touted over the course of the next six months, if only to sell more newspapers. They need scare stories and global warming is in danger of having run its course.
It would be interesting to see what Piers Corbyn has to say. He says his long range forcasts are 85% correct.
He did forecast the last cold winter, the Royal Wedding and at least a month in advance a "Floody Summer"
Further to my previous Posting here is a link
http://www.weatheraction.com/docs/WANews11No8.pdf
To Pier's Website item.
re TTY
Forestry products won't be in demand during any cold winters. We can just import all the wood for biofuel and woodchip burners from tropical rainforests.. can't we?
It appears some believe that ice-free arctic summers somehow means ice-free arctic winters.
But then what else is ti be expected by the anti-science, anti-basic intelligence crowd.