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« Cuccinelli appeals | Main | Supercomputers »
Monday
Jan032011

More wind

Apparently the Times has a story on the continuing failure of windmills to deliver sufficient energy. It's not online, but this looks like the key excerpt (H/T Philip Bratby)

Concern over huge fluctuations in the supply of electricity from Britain’s 3,000 wind turbines has prompted National Grid to begin detailed forecasts of wind strength.

The turbines have delivered well below their usual output this winter and in the 24 hours to 5pm yesterday contributed only 0.5 per cent of the country’s power. Parts of the day were so still that wind power’s contribution fell below 0.2 per cent. On the windiest days, the turbines deliver about 8 per cent. A record of 10 per cent over a 24-hour period was set on September 6 last year.

But since the beginning of December, turbines have been operating at only 20 per cent of their maximum capacity compared with an annual average of about 30 per cent.

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Reader Comments (63)

The speech to the Scottish parliament by Rupert Soames basically trashed wind as a source of reliable energy. Looks like the figures are now showing the reality. Until the Con-Dems and Huhne are made to understand the folly of what they are doing we will be back to the seventies and power cuts.

Jan 3, 2011 at 11:42 AM | Unregistered CommenterMactheknife

The failure of wind power is becoming recognised in strange and alarmist places; even the DT's dire Louise 'WWF' Gray recently wrote that "concerns are being raised" etc etc....

Jan 3, 2011 at 11:45 AM | Unregistered CommenterRick Bradford

Judging by her past performances, whatever Louise Gray said about wind power must have been a WWF press release she added a prologue and epilogue to and otherwise reproduced nearly word for word. It is getting serious.

Jan 3, 2011 at 11:49 AM | Unregistered Commentercosmic

I believe these systems were sold on the basis of what we'd call "nameplate" capacity - i.e., megawatts. The actual generated power of 30% is another fudge. Even in the best of times many Scot mills may have hit 10% and likely for only a second or two. There are many quaint Brit phrases that sum up this type of selling.

These spending foolishness reminds one of how some say the Roman Empire fell - not be any one cause in particular just a series of really stupid decisions. The West is littered with these decisions and their effects - the sub-prime mortgages bubble, stimulus spending, national health care, government "pensions", Islam is a religion of peace, "social safety net" Ponzi schemes and the list goes on and on. Green renewable energy is just the tip of a very large iceberg. But, thanks to the Left, it's becoming the poster child for stupid decisions driven by pure junk science that's morphed over to simply junk propaganda.

The West can suffer a few of these decisions and still survive for a very long time as did the Roman Empire. What's lost to history is the suffering of individual citizens. What will be unique this time around is the that the citizens mostly lined up and support these stupid decisions. It's more than just a cold wind that's whispering through the government halls. 'Tis the things of legand.

Jan 3, 2011 at 11:50 AM | Unregistered Commentercedarhill

It's about time the National Grid took the problem of intermittency and back-up seriously. Engineers have been telling them this for years, but they seem to have followed government instructions and have been saying for years that it is not a problem.

Tellingly NG acknowledge back-up concerns in a big way for the first time, by saying:

National Grid, which operates Britain’s high voltage electricity network, is concerned by the amount of energy being wasted by keeping extra coal and gas plants partly running in case the wind drops unexpectedly. It wants a step change in the accuracy of wind forecasts to cope with the far more challenging fluctuations that will result from the Government’s plan to source up to a third of electricity from wind by 2020.

Of course the wind industry denies any problems by trying to divert attention to something else other than the problem of intermittency and back-up:

Renewable UK, the wind industry trade body, admitted that average annual output from onshore turbines was unlikely to rise above 30 per cent of their maximum capacity. But it said that output from turbines offshore, where it tends to be windier, could be increased from 34 per cent now to 42 per by 2020 if operators achieved their targets to reduce mechanical failures.

We know how easy it is to maintain wind turbines in the North Sea, in freezing conditions and howling gales, using helicopters. And of course, dodgy foundations and corrosive salt spray all make for reliable offshore turbines! ☺

Jan 3, 2011 at 11:55 AM | Unregistered CommenterPhillip Bratby

The whole concept is a scam.
Suddenly, in 2011, the UK government has decided that wind is a 'useful resource' and can contribute to our 'renewables obligation' in terms of electricity generation. We are all contributing hugely, via the subsidies built into our electricity bills, to the march of these things across our countryside and coastline. Two centuries ago mariners, millers and drainers of the Fens, gratefully ditched wind power in favour of steam power - because, clearly, they could use the power when THEY chose and not when the wind condescended to blow.
The government and Renewables UK can dress the 'efficiency' and 'output' figures up all they like - the fact remains that wind is an erratic, unreliable source of energy - has been for millions of years, and will remain so. We are heading for serious shortages of generating capacity in the next few years as the EU requires us to shut down polluting power stations - but the government blunders on with wind power as though its going to make up the shortfall.
I recently had correspondence from the DECC proudly stating that we have overtaken Denmark in terms of offshore windfarm capacity - well, try asking the Danes how much they like wind power. They have the highest electricity bills in the EU - and wind turbines blight the countryside and stop house sales in their tracks. A recent study in The Netherlands even showed that, far from reducing CO2 (that well-known 'bete noir' of the climate lobby), wind farms can actually increase it, due to the way that standby generating capacity has to be managed, to take account of the erratic and occasional output from wind farms.
Never mind 8 percent, 0.5 percent, or even 0.2 percent - during the recent cold spell, on several occasions wind contributed a magnificent ZERO POINT ONE PERCENT of generating capacity according to the neta tables, which are updated every ten minutes. The government's own figures give the output of wind farms as 27% of installed capacity (questionable) - but can you imagine building a power station with that level of reliability..? 'Oh yes, its a gas-fired station which will get gas a maximum of two days a week..'
In the magazine Professional Engineering a few months ago, there was an article asking what my fellow engineers thought might be the optimum format and number of blades for wind turbines. One contributor, with his tongue only slightly in his cheek, suggested 'none' - and the mast could then just be used for advertising...

Jan 3, 2011 at 12:02 PM | Unregistered CommenterDavid

The Telegraph also carried this article about the lack of power from the windmills - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/windpower/8234616/Wind-farms-becalmed-just-when-needed-the-most.html - article is dated the 01/01/11.

In December I met with my MSP (Member Scottish Parliament) about the whole issue of APGW - he was very interested in what I had to say about the quality of the science and in the variability of wind generated power. He is concerned at the dash to wind power in Scotland. He was well aware of the damage that "Climate Gate" has done to the reputation of climate science - but he is a not a scientist himself and believes that he has to follow the "official consensus" of the government bodies. I have bought the Bishop's book for him and he said that he would read it. He is an opposition MSP.

Jan 3, 2011 at 12:05 PM | Unregistered CommenterRobert Thomson

Reneweable UK are serial liars. They have to be to perpetuate the "wind farm scam", as excellently described by Dr John Etherington in his book of that title.

The proifts that the wind industry gets from the scam are such that they have to keep on lying. Capacity factors are considerably lower than they claim.

Jan 3, 2011 at 12:09 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhillip Bratby

Is it possible smart meters are the unofficial response to the energy gap? Brownouts for "non essential" things like domestic supply at the flick of a switch, seems to indicate controlled variable demand.

Maybe this is one example of the grey term "demand destruction".

Jan 3, 2011 at 12:13 PM | Unregistered CommenterFrosty

"A record of 10 per cent over a 24-hour period was set on September 6 last year"

Note that this 10% figure is a bit of a fudge. IIRR, the actual figure was 4.7%, and it was rounded up with a guesstimate of "embedded capacity", which I think means wind energy not connected to the grid. I don't think it was for a full 24-hour period either: I think it hit a max of 4.7% at some point during the 24 hours.

Jan 3, 2011 at 12:21 PM | Unregistered CommenterTurning Tide

@Turning Tide

Embedded generation is connected to the grid but at a lower voltage, and includes many other generators than wind. Embedded generation of any type would appear to the NGC realtime system as negative demand. Just over half of the UK's wind turbines are "embedded", but whether it is anywhere near accurate to double up the metered output is debatable, as nearly all the metered turbines are in Scotland and thusly not geographically representative.

Jan 3, 2011 at 12:32 PM | Unregistered CommenterFujirobin

David,
Bladeless turbines would certainly have much lower maintenance requirements. The prioritizing of "demand destruction" offers some interesting opportunities for conjecture. The nation's hair-driers simultaneously cut out enraging women getting ready to go to the office. Or no hot water, or take the stairs, the lifts are down, or you come down to drive you electric car to work to find that its grid connection was cut out due to insufficient wind.

Someone might divine the myriad possibilities and contribute them to one of your newspapers over the line "Is this really what you want?"

At the same time, having been a participant in a residential utility controlled load shedding scheme in Miami some years ago, where the pool-pump, air conditioner, and hot water heater could be toggled on and off from afar, I can report that it was done during the utility's peak demand periods and was not inconvenient.

I also suspect that the difference between their "comfortable" peak capacity and peal demand subject to shaving was nothing like what you'll see when it "blowing in the wind."

Jan 3, 2011 at 12:54 PM | Unregistered Commenterj ferguson

I am in awe, I cannot fathom the 'thinking' going on behind the ethos of planting wind turbines all over this Island.

Mr. Thompson, refers to a MSP, who has to toe the 'official consensus' line, well, that confirms my suspicions, well not a suspicion really, in actuality, a nailed on fact. Politicians of all shades are ignorant brain-dead lemmings, who haven't between all of them - a single inventive thought, have no character whatsoever and are lambs to the slaughter.
Bliar, was the political originator [learnt from sitting at the feet of his wife] of this type of blind obedience. That, MPs must do as the executive directs, executive? Who am I kidding? Bliar was a tyrant, a coward because he never faced down the man of Dreich but a despot nevertheless. MPs, do not represent the views of the people, no, they do the bidding of their masters, subliminal text: to destroy the fabric and will of that nation - so be it.

IN Britain, that is the bidding of the Brussels Politburo, where the AGW religion is strongest - there will be no discord and no backsliding. Windmills for Britain - it is written and set in concrete (as it were).

You will obey.

No original thought is to be allowed, what's next.............. book burnings? And then witch-hunts and trials, auto-da-fe?

Jan 3, 2011 at 1:06 PM | Unregistered CommenterAthelstan

Well, they'll rather compound the problem if they use Met Office forecasts of wind. Myabe they'll buy the info from Piers Corbyn, just to be on the safe side.

Jan 3, 2011 at 1:39 PM | Unregistered CommenterNeal Asher

These dismal and shockingly variable production numbers are very important for ensuring the tax paying public recognizes the exorbitant costs of renewables such as wind power. What will add weight to the argument against further wasteful investment in windpower are full cost estimates of a KWh electricity from wind power compared to national averages. The case of Denmark is compelling, but even these costs are masked by ready access to and proximity of the storage resources of Norway and Sweden.

Jan 3, 2011 at 1:44 PM | Unregistered CommenterBernie

cedarhill

Yes all very true. - It has been suggested that one of the mistakes Rome made was to integrate the citizens of the countries they conquered into the Roman Empire, didn't just rule over them. Apparently towards the collapse many "Romans" thought it had diluted the essence of what they were.

Without being at all racist, does this seem familiar?

Thanks everyone for the interesting data on windmills.

Jan 3, 2011 at 2:05 PM | Unregistered CommenterRetiredDave

Bernie,

All the arguments about costs and uselessness of wind power are wasted on the Government. Tony Bliar sidned up to the EU diktat that 15% of the UK energy should come from renewable sources by 2020. Most of that energy has to come from electricity as transport and heating will mainly come from fossil fuels anyway. In this country the only significant renewable resource that can be utilised by 2020 is wind (tidal and wave are just pipe-dreams, solar is a nonsense in this country and we have little scope for more hydro). Thus logic is thrown out of the window and wind has to be pursued at all costs. The fact that we won't achieve the target is ignored and the fact that CO2 emissions will be increased are irrelevancies and are also ignored.

We are truly in an asylum run by the inmates at Brussels and Westminster.

Jan 3, 2011 at 2:14 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhillip Bratby

Re Frosty

Is it possible smart meters are the unofficial response to the energy gap? Brownouts for "non essential" things like domestic supply at the flick of a switch, seems to indicate controlled variable demand.

Smart meters are official and legislated now. They're an official response to the need to increase profits by reducing the cost of meter reading. They also allow demand management (or destruction) by allowing remote disconnection or potentially reduced supply for non-payment by people in energy poverty. They'll also allow some business tariffs to be offered to consumers, like interruptable power. So standard smart power will mean loss of power on low wind days, premium tariffs will cost you more but your lights stay on. Zero consumer benefit but increased consumer costs, and increased supplier profits. Current smart meters are very dumb, but we're going to have to buy them.

Also some safety aspects, especially if gas suppliers follow the same route. My neighbour had their gas meter read recently, the meter reader discovered a small gas leak and arranged an emergency repair. Can smart meters detect faults or frauds?

Jan 3, 2011 at 2:20 PM | Unregistered CommenterAtomic Hairdryer

The 10% record for September is pretty meaningless if it is for power used by the grid. Total demand in September is likely to be a whole lot less than in December. 10% of f**k all is - f**k all. The total amount generated would be more useful.

Jan 3, 2011 at 2:35 PM | Unregistered Commentermister_choos

My Westminster MP has not responded to my letters about possible power cuts brought on through over-reliance on wind turbines, I guess because he doesn't want to step on the toes of his political boss, Ed Milliband. However, I'm not giving up, and the more of us ordinary citizens who pursue our Politicians, the better. Many readers of this blog have scientific backgrounds so are in a particularly strong position to describe the bad science underlying the Government's policy.

Jan 3, 2011 at 2:48 PM | Unregistered CommenterFZM

Re frosty:

Is it possible smart meters are the unofficial response to the energy gap? Brownouts for "non essential" things like domestic supply at the flick of a switch, seems to indicate controlled variable demand.

Exactly as Atomic H says above, but the point of accelerated smart meter deployment in the UK is to deal with the shortfalls from renewables. Not the energy gap from peak oil.

Smart meters will be used for 'demand management' to attempt to balance the grid as the wind comes and goes. The result will be widespread brownouts, massive nuisance, occasional disaster and a new age of misery created entirely by the renewables fantasists currently directing energy 'policy' in the UK.

There will be civil disobedience followed by emergency build programs for gas turbine plant. Nuclear would have been far the better choice, but GT is much faster to build, even though it leaves us open to supply-side insecurity.

Jan 3, 2011 at 3:03 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

To be fair to National Grid, I think they have been playing a difficult commercial/political hand.

They have been quietly warning of the problems of intermittency, forecasting and backup for some time if your read their reports carefully.

Their last two Winter Outlook reports have been very critical, see a fillet of NG's ‘Winter Consultation Report 2010/11. A review of winter 2009/10 and preliminary outlook for winter 2010/11’, here:
Windbyte co. uk.

National Grid's latest Seven Year statement also clearly sets out the scale of the back-up that will be required by the currently planned wind build and they have been planning (however ludicrous it may be) for operating a very large wind capacity by curtailment.

I am not sure how the public are going to take paying wind operators wholesale plus RO subsidy not to produce. The new Danish system might be more popular: relating wind tariffs to the spot price, so operators have to pay NG to take power when there is a surplus!

Meanwhile the essential problem remains: power production is not understood by Joe Public (or the last 12 energy ministers, it would appear), while turbines are politically visible and are earning lots of people in the right circles lots of dosh. The only people who are suffering are the poor clods who are paying for them, but most of them have no idea that they are doing so.

All in all, that is the definition of a perfect scam.

Jan 3, 2011 at 3:17 PM | Unregistered CommenterWhaup

FZM:

Your MP should respond to your letters. If not you should be knocking on his door. It is a waste of time writing directly to ministers as you will just get a response from some civil serice minion. I am pursuing Charles Hendry at DECC via my MP. The trouble is it takes 3 months to get a letter back from the minister via my MP. And the letter signed by Charles Hendry is written by a civil servant which Charles Hendry just signs without reading. However I am still pursuing it via my MP, because in my opinion the civil servant is either lying or is incompetent and Charles Hendry is not being told the truth by his advisors and civil servants. I will not let this go. We all need to pursue this ruinous energy policy via our MPs and all means possible. Most of the media is unhelpful and the BBC thinks wind turbines are wonderful.

Jan 3, 2011 at 3:18 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhillip Bratby

It concerns me that, if we can't between us scupper such an obvious, blatant and demonstrable fraud as BigWind, how long will it be before we can destroy the rather more subtle nonsense of cAGW?

Our "leaders" in Brussels and Westminster have nailed their ecotard colours only too securely to their masts and aren't about to admit what corrupt dolts they really are.

The normal remedy for such a situation is to wait for the proponents to die and be replaced with a new generation. But our upcoming generation has been pumped full of the same greenie nonsense at school and by the media (and wretched 'celebs') and given very little intellectual scientific understanding which would enable them to start questioning what they have been told.

How much damage will be done to what remains of our (extremely shakey) economy, before people wake up and realise what's been going on?

True, shivering in the dark may concentrate minds.........

Jan 3, 2011 at 3:18 PM | Unregistered CommenterMartin Brumby

The scandal of wind power and the apparent ignorance of our politicians is the greatest threat to our economy and life-style.
The scientifically literate are being ignored by people who can't count!
Do we need a 'march' or a petition - anything to draw the attention of the 'people' to this madness.
www.geog.ox.ac.uk/~dcurtis/NETA/html is an excellent source of real time energy by source and it makes very scary reading for Dec.2010.

Jan 3, 2011 at 3:37 PM | Unregistered CommenterG.Watkins

Smart meters and "brownouts":

Keep seeing references to these combined. Remember that the term "brownbout" means, its a reduced voltage, not a complete loss of power.

Smart meters can't reduce voltage, all they can do is switch it on of off, so they will not cause brownouts, they will be blackouts.

Brownouts are potentially damaging. Many electrical items respond very poorly to decreased voltage. This is particularly true of things with big motors - industrial items.

However, since there is very little industry left in the West, I suppose this isn't a big concern.

Jan 3, 2011 at 3:42 PM | Unregistered CommenterPJP

re brownouts

PJP is of course correct. Sloppy choice of word on my part above.

My understanding is that the eventual intent is to have smart metering able to cut power to discrete circuits within the home - so in theory the freezer stays on but other white goods become temporarily disabled. Quite how the installation of such devices would go in the real world remains to be seen. Complicated and expensive with need for comprehensive rewiring of many/most properties seems likely.

Let's hope they remain an evil dream.

Jan 3, 2011 at 3:54 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

Phillip Bratby:
Thank you for your comments. I shall continue to pursue my MP. As for the BBC, they do indeed think wind power is wonderful. Having stated on my regional news programme last week that a wind farm in the Irish Sea will provide electricity for 300,000 homes, they failed to mention how many homes it will power when the wind doesn't blow. The fact that some of our newspapers now print critical comments is a source of encouragement.

Jan 3, 2011 at 3:56 PM | Unregistered CommenterFZM

But think of the benefit of more wind machines. Many more discussions like this, ad infinitum. Such funn.

Jan 3, 2011 at 3:57 PM | Unregistered CommenterGeorge Steiner

And don't forget, wind power makes a lot of money by not supplying the grid on windy days: Firms paid to shut down wind farms when the wind is blowing, Why?, because on breezy summer nights - no one is using the power - and it can't be dumped into the grid with nowhere to go. Solution - pay the windmill scammers not to generate when conditioners are most likely to approach their inflated claims.

No wonder the national grid operator wants accurate wind and weather forecasts. Next they'll be calling for GCM models which demonstrate that this is all really necessary.

Jan 3, 2011 at 4:03 PM | Unregistered CommenterZT

Slightly O/T but related is another loony aspect of energy policy - Feed in Tariffs (FiT's) and The Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI).

FiT's pay you for every kilowatt hour of renewable energy you produce say from Photo Voltaics and wind mills. The daft bit is that they pay you twice as much as you would pay from the grid. It is at least monitored to see how much you pass to the grid, although a power-line engineer friend of mine tells me that the current grid isn't really designed for two way working anyway - well would it be?

The RHI will pay you for energy you consume (yes consume) from heat pumps, biomass boilers and solar thermal panels. It does not take a genius to see that this can't be monitored easily, so they will make an assessment of your likely consumption and pay you based on that.

The pay out period will be over the next 15 to 25 years! There is some wriggle room in the shape of shifting rates etc. but even so both these are very generous. AND both subsidies will be paid for by higher bills for everyone else - great.

One of the silly aspects of the RHI is that it rewards for using electricity (heat pump) and gives nothing to those who use a wood burning stove (which is carbon neutral), although it might be possible to claim if the stove has a back-boiler.

The obvious conclusion is that someone has decided that heat pumps are definitely to be encouraged. Unfortunately they suffer similar inflated claims to wind turbines. Coefficients of Performance (COP) are always quoted at the high end of the possible at 3 to 4 - that is 3 to 4 Kw of heat for every 1 Kw of electricity used. A recent independent survey found few that exceeded 2.5 COP in the real world. They are also less efficient the higher you want the temperature output and drastically so. People often say they are getting their heating for free - something to do with the marketing I think, although the government are doing their bit to make it true.

So you buy a heat pump instead of a gas boiler and get 2.5 times as much heat as you use electricity, but as most of you know I'm sure, electricity is 2.5 times the price of gas on average. So your savings like for like will not be much I guess.

AND imagine if all those people with gas boilers suddenly switched to heat pumps, using electricity!!!!!

Since gas is rated as better than electricity for CO2 emissions - it could be that there will be no savings there either.

Why do government just listen to the salesman's pitch every time and never seem to look beyond the brochure? It is likely that Phillip Bratby is right above and they know its crap but its an EU directive.

What a mess.

Jan 3, 2011 at 4:03 PM | Unregistered CommenterRetired Dave

"a wind farm in the Irish Sea will provide electricity for 300,000 homes"

- providing they only have the standby light on their mobile phone charger swiched on?

Jan 3, 2011 at 4:05 PM | Unregistered CommenterMartin Brumby

Jan 3, 2011 at 3:18 PM | Phillip Bratby

"Charles Hendry is not being told the truth by his advisors and civil servants"

Define "truth" in the context: "Charles Hendry’s business career has mostly been spent in Public Relations" extract from biography on DECC website.

See also http://tinyurl.com/2g3v6nu "Charles Hendry keynote speech to CCS Senior Stakeholders Conference" on 8 July 2010, where he had this to say:

"On his second day in office, the Prime Minister tasked DECC with leading this government to be the greenest ever. I think that shows how high on the agenda we are. And it’s a great pleasure to be with you today and talk about where I see Carbon Capture Storage (CCS) in the greenest government ever."

blah, blah, then:

" But, Government also has to take a long-term strategic view. I will therefore also want to look at the sort of infrastructure that will be needed to deploy CCS beyond the demonstration stage and how we can use the demonstration programme to set the seeds for that future. I will want to consider what more Government might consider to help this process, including a role for the sort of Agency recommended by our conference chair– Lord Oxburgh – in a report published before the election."

There is our Ron again!

Anyway good luck and a happy new year.

Jan 3, 2011 at 4:07 PM | Unregistered CommenterBrownedoff

Brownedoff

I should have said "Charles Hendry is being misled by his advisors and civil servants". Things like "a wind farm in the Irish Sea will provide electricity for 300,000 homes" and other misleading information that BWEA (RenewableUK) spout ad nauseum in the papers and on the BBC.

Jan 3, 2011 at 4:19 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhillip Bratby

George Steiner:

Wind machines are most useful, especially in special effects for films, wind tunnels, and testing of aeronautical and automotive parts and designs, etc, etc. Dashed good things. Wind turbines now (which are what we're discussing in this thread) not so good, in fact a blight on the fair landscape and a drain on the pocket of the much put-upon populace. Do keep up at the back there.

Jan 3, 2011 at 4:25 PM | Unregistered CommenterCumbrian Lad

Jan 3, 2011 at 3:54 PM | BBD

"Let's hope they remain an evil dream."

Sorry BBD but smart meters are a real evil nightmare.

The USA and Europe are introducing smart meters on a huge scale - if you live in Europe, the European Parliament has mandated smart metering by 2022.

Further reading to give you nightmares: go to http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/meters-offswitch.pdf

Jan 3, 2011 at 4:29 PM | Unregistered CommenterBrownedoff

Come on guys (uni-sex) - My wife says that I will have to stop coming to see you, because I end up even more depressed than I was already!"!!!!!!

Good job am optimist isn't it?

Jan 3, 2011 at 4:38 PM | Unregistered CommenterRetired Dave

It's time for everyone to start thinking about a backup generator for home use. I have recently purchased mine and plan to have the electricians in before long to fit a changeover box that will allow me to use the diesel generator in times of blackout.

Risk planning in action!

Jan 3, 2011 at 4:40 PM | Unregistered CommenterLord Beaverbrook

Lod Beaverbrook:

I'm planning on having a generator. Have you looked into whether diesel is better than bottled gas?

Smart meters are another example of big brother monitoring your every move and penalising you if you use electricity when big brother says you shouldn't.

Jan 3, 2011 at 4:47 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhillip Bratby

Re BBD

My understanding is that the eventual intent is to have smart metering able to cut power to discrete circuits within the home - so in theory the freezer stays on but other white goods become temporarily disabled. Quite how the installation of such devices would go in the real world remains to be seen. Complicated and expensive with need for comprehensive rewiring of many/most properties seems likely.

That seems the dream. Current reality is more like this news article

Gridstream MDUS 1.0 includes the following interface functionalities via SAP AMI 1.0 webservices:

* Meter Reading at scheduled times, or on demand
* Master Data Synchronization at meter installation and register changes
* Basic Interval Data services for transferring metering time series information
* Configuration Data
* Disconnection / Re-connection of meter’s status by operating the meter connect-relay

Some smart meters have multiple relays for multiple rings, which means consumers having to decide which rings get the chop.. Well, which rings the suppliers can chop when they feel like it. Naturally those smart meters are more expensive, so the ones currently being rolled out in the UK are dumber all on/off versions. They benefit suppliers, not consumers. If you look at the manufacturer's websites though, the USP's are for suppliers, so the ability to create new (more expensive) tariffs, reduce costs by remote meter reading and reduce fraud by remote disconnection for non-payment. Or increase fraud because people will be more incentivised by rising electricity prices to run bypasses, especially if there'll be fewer meter readers checking for frauds which can be rather hazardous, or linked to other criminal activity like GYO cannabis factories.

Let's hope they remain an evil dream.

Sadly they're a looming nightmare, but cash for questions well spent by the manufacturers. Windmills were just the icing on the cake to justify rolling them out given meter makers had been lobbying for these since before the wind scam took off.

Jan 3, 2011 at 4:48 PM | Unregistered CommenterAtomic Hairdryer

Re Lord Beaverbrook

I have recently purchased mine and plan to have the electricians in before long to fit a changeover box that will allow me to use the diesel generator in times of blackout.

Have you checked all the paperwork for having your own POL store? :) Also see China's rising diesel prices due to lots of Chinese having the same idea.

Jan 3, 2011 at 4:51 PM | Unregistered CommenterAtomic Hairdryer

Most of this stuff comes from or is endorsed by the EU. To reverse it would take a UK government willing to confront the EU. From what we've seen over the years, particularly with regard to the Lisbon Treaty and the Coalition's performance in respect of supporting the Euro, whichever of the three main parties is in office, confronting the EU is not going to happen.

It's not quite that simple, as the EU pushing the UK around. Our representatives in the EU have done their fair share of pushing for measures to tackle climate change and they don't exactly drag their heels when it comes to implementing them.

However, it isn't simply a matter of pressing the UK government to reverse policy, not while we are part of the EU.

Jan 3, 2011 at 5:03 PM | Unregistered Commentercosmic

Re Phiip Bratby, Atomic Hairdryer

Ideally I was looking for LPG but this one I came across at an unmissable price. As far as fuel storage there will be a jerry can for emergencies and if there looks to be prolonged blackout outs then the country is going to be in that much trouble that I don't think anyone will be bothered about what I keep in my garage!

Jan 3, 2011 at 5:45 PM | Unregistered CommenterLord Beaverbrook

If you use an old style pre direct injection and pre ECU's diesel engine you can run them on Veg oil including discarded cooking oils that have been filtered. You start the engine on normal diesel and when the engine is at normal temps you switch over to veggie oil which is thinned on the way to the engine by heating using the heat of the coolant and a heat exchanger.

Fresh pure veg oil in the supermarkets costs nearly the same as pump diesel, so it only works if you have a cheap supply of used oil.

Jan 3, 2011 at 5:48 PM | Unregistered CommenterBreath of fresh air

Here is a paper that applies to much of the topics covered on this blog.

If nothing else, it will introduce the wonderful Joanne Nova to anyone who hasn't visited her - one ballsy lady and bright with it.

http://joannenova.com.au/2011/01/the-truth-wears-off-is-there-something-wrong-with-the-scientific-method/#more-12609

I wonder why she would highlight this on an AGW Sceptic (sorry Skeptic) website????!!!!!

Jan 3, 2011 at 6:17 PM | Unregistered CommenterRetired Dvae

'Sceptic'

Skeptic is American usage.

Jan 3, 2011 at 6:20 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

Re Lord Beaverbrook/Atomic Hairdryer et al...

I've bought a 3.2kw standby generator - petrol, but that's what my lawnmower runs on anyway...
Only £130 from my local German-parented supermarket - not planning to fit a changeover switch, but at least I'll be able to keep the fridge/freezer and telly running when the cuts start coming...!

Jan 3, 2011 at 6:58 PM | Unregistered CommenterDavid

Re David

If you connect it to your mains circuit make sure that you can isolate the incoming from the grid. You don't want to be using the generator when the grid comes back on.

Jan 3, 2011 at 7:04 PM | Unregistered CommenterLord Beaverbrook

Sorry BBD - I was being a bit ironic. I am British.

Actually of course Jo Nova is Australian so she likes to spell it with a "k" for some reason.

It is acceptable both ways these days in the blogosphere. Standards - where have they gone?

Jan 3, 2011 at 7:05 PM | Unregistered CommenterRetired Dave

David
not planning to fit a changeover switch,

Be VERY, VERY, VERY careful with that. There are several reasons why you really want one. First, is to isolate yourself from the Mains power source. The second is to keep from charging up the lines outside your home and perhaps electrocuting a worker trying to fix the outage, and third should you be lucky enough to not kill anyone out on the street, should your generator be running and connected to the mains power when it is switched back on, there is a very good chance that your generator and the mains power will be out of phase and the effect can be similar to a dead short. Not good.

You MUST isolate your house from the mains power carefully. The best and safest and generally only legal way is with an isolation switch. I personally don't have one, but I have a check list that I follow as carefully as an airline pilot follows his/hers.

Jan 3, 2011 at 7:51 PM | Unregistered CommenterDon Pablo de la Sierra

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